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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Mark Eldridge‏ @markeldo 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @taviso and

      Notice how AV doesn’t appear in that model at all. 🙂

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @markeldo @taviso and

      Sure. Also notice how almost nobody runs it (yet).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @markeldo and

      Antivirus is entrenched real good, but you agree it doesn't work and we need to make things better, right? I don't understand the pushback, it's like you're saying "nah it's good enough" to me, then I see you complain how terrible it is in other tweets 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @markeldo and

      Pragmatism and realism. If most orgs turned off AV right now, they wouldn't have a network in a week. That's my experience. There's a very long road to getting almost every org to a position where they can be AV free.

      3 replies 1 retweet 15 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @markeldo and

      You're talking about keeping an dangerously insecure network operational, not keeping it secure. You can keep a jet in the air with duct tape, but I hope you're not transporting anything important. So we're in agreement that whitelisting is a good solution, and AV isn't?

      5 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    6. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @markeldo and

      Security and operations go hand in hand. Lots of orgs have vastly under invested in IT and lurch from one near miss to another - they're also still in business. I'm not about idealism because the trench reality is very different outside tech company budgets.

      2 replies 1 retweet 13 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @markeldo and

      Is it idealism to give up on homeopathy when your patients start dying? You say "security and operations go hand in hand", but there exists no security today, and you argue for maintaining that status quo so as not to risk operations!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @markeldo and

      Nope, not arguing for status quo. Just saying that, say you've got a crab paste company with 10k staff depending on it - if you uninstall AV, you don't have a company shortly after. Maybe you need a plan to get better, which can include, for example, app whitelisting with AV etc

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @markeldo and

      You need a plan of course, nobody would dispute that. It can certainly include a transition period or staged rollout, whatever works to get to safety. I think your position seems to be more nuanced than your flowchart suggested, which people have been pasting at me nonstop ☹️

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @markeldo and

      Twitter, innit. Your position is more nuanced than your average tweet suggests too - it's a terrible platform to use for debates really. I deliberately didn't tag you in that flowchart as it was a throw away, I was game streaming when my phone started buzzing and thought 'oh god'

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @markeldo and

      Yeah, although I wish you had made it clearer you were talking about not transitioning away from antivirus without a plan, because lots of people read it as "antivirus makes you secure". 😛

      10:32 AM - 15 Nov 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • ⬡ Jens Wiechers Farh Anible black traffic
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. black traffic‏ @_black_traffic_ 15 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @GossiTheDog and

          Oh good, mom and dad have made up.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 15 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @_black_traffic_ @taviso and

          I never had a problem with @taviso or what he was saying. He does great work. AV (and other security stuff) needs more eyes on it as the status is.. not quo.

          4 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
        4. 2 more replies
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        2. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 15 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @GossiTheDog and

          I don’t think anyone was arguing that AV alone makes you secure - but that it should be part of a multi faceted security posture, and that in many cases it’s a cornerstone of some organizations defensive capabilities depending on size and maturity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Mark Eldridge‏ @markeldo 15 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @TheVega @taviso and

          It shouldn’t be the cornerstone of anything, which is the point. If your network can be compromised because something slipped past your AV, the problem isn’t the AV. The problem is that your network assumes AV is a robust security control.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 4 more replies

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