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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Marco Ermini‏ @MarcoErmini 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @4Dgifts @martijn_grooten and

      Abstractly speaking, it is always a vendor problem. If Windows was perfect you would not need an AV. Now jump back to reality and we realise that security is about multiple levels of security and never rely on a single one.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @MarcoErmini @4Dgifts and

      FWIW, I don't think AV is about "patching Windows" (though it probably was more like that in the past). It's about helping users make decisions.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Joxean Koret‏ @matalaz 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @MarcoErmini and

      AVs are not about helping users making decisions. AVs are sold as tools to forget about the security of your computer, "the tool does it for you".

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @matalaz @MarcoErmini and

      I don't care what they're sold as. Lots of AV marketing has been poor and that's not been very helpful. I do care what it does in practice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Joxean Koret‏ @matalaz 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @MarcoErmini and

      I do care a lot about how are them sold, as AV marketing campaigns have always been a damn cancer for information security.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @matalaz @MarcoErmini and

      Sure, but that's an entirely separate discussion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Joxean Koret‏ @matalaz 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @MarcoErmini and

      Err... No.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @matalaz @MarcoErmini and

      Yes. We're talking about whether average home users on most OS's should use AV for what it does in practice. Not whether implicit or explicit marketing claims are correct.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @matalaz and

      You can't do that Martijn. When you tell users "keep paying us and you can click whatever you like" you've made the problem worse. A (wise) cynic might say you're exacerbating the problem because you're scared the revenue stream might dry up.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. m0gs‏ @munghost 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten and

      Throwing my hat into this dumpster fire. AV is akin to the seat belt on a modern car, and supplemented by ABS, side impact airbags, radar assist, etc. AV by itself is a first line of defense now. On the Windows side, Defender alone is better than no AV. BTW, I don't work for MS.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @munghost @martijn_grooten and

      Look, homeopathy is like seat belts on a modern car. Homeopathy is a first line of defense, it's better than no medicine at all.

      10:24 AM - 14 Nov 2018
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Simon PG Edwards‏ @spgedwards 14 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @munghost and

          Is it? Actually, let's not bring an argument about homeopathy into this : )

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @spgedwards @munghost and

          I replaced the word "antivirus" with "homeopathy" and repeated his tweet back to him. It's common for antivirus industry to want to compare their products with real security products, like helmets and seat belts. In reality, it's more like homeopathy and crystals.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. m0gs‏ @munghost 14 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten and

          Yes, AV is outdated, but it can save the grandma from downloading ransomware in a spam email and some poor schmuck relative explaining to her her files have been farked. APT groups, not so much.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. m0gs‏ @munghost 14 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @munghost @taviso and

          LOL before someone takes my words and replaces it with homeopathy, I meant APT groups against organizations and not grandmothers 😃

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. m0gs‏ @munghost 14 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten and

          I agree this will open a can of unneeded worms.:) Homeopathy is not a subject you and I have expertise in. However, what I meant by my seat belt analogy is that its better to drive with them than not, especially if your car doesn't have the other technologies to save your ass.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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