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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @tylerni7 and

      You didn't solve anything, you just moved some bits around. Do not say "what about warning fatigue", when a VPN does not solve warning fatigue.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      The threat model I'd assume for an average user is "dumb attacker with a wifi pineapple or equivalent". That's easy for someone in a coffee shop. I don't expect a low-resource attacker to have the capability to MITM traffic out of a VPN server.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      Your threat model is very confused, a physically nearby attacker willing to break the law who can only MITM one protocol (TLS) but not another (IPSEC, whatever). So you send all your bits to shady middleman instead?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      I'd base my threat model based on what is off-the-shelf available. The number of attackers capable of buying a COTS tool (wifi pineapple) is orders of magnitude larger than folks who can write or even compile custom software.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @taviso and

      I'd hope users use a corporate VPN or a GCE/AWS/hosting provider for a VPN, not pay $1/month to a sketchy company I agree that sketchy VPN providers change the balance on this. Admittedly maybe it's unrealistic for me to expect users with real VPN endpoints can't grok cert errors

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      That's more than unrealistic, that's just plain impossible.... come on 😜

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      That's fair, and I'll definitely concede that point. I do think for corporate users it's maybe reasonable, but outside of that the only folks using reliable servers are probably smart enough not stay on TLS sites and not ignore cert errors in potential hostile environments

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Crisofilaxx‏ @Crisofilaxxx 19 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @taviso and

      LMFAO you are ones of the most important and technical gifted hackers... and get involved in the same dumbs discussions about how to protect end users as the rest of the members of the community. just pointing out that... you guys still are awesome

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @Crisofilaxxx @tylerni7 and

      Fighting misinformation like "everybody needs a vpn", or "SMS 2FA prevents phishing" from well-meaning people is a real challenge. What's your proposal, just let the bad advice flow and chill? 🤷‍♂️

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 19 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      FWIW, I'd also say SMS 2FA (while obviously not a great form of 2FA) does raise the bar for phishing, and is therefore a net positive. :P

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

      You sure say "raise the bar" a lot.

      9:37 AM - 19 Oct 2018
      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        1. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 19 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @KimZetter @martijn_grooten

          I think that's all most of security is at the end of the day. I don't think it's "is this secure: yes or no" it's "how many resources would an attack take to succeed" and work up from there until your security level matches the threats you expect. Is that a controversial opinion?

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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