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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @codinghorror @thenthj

      Careful: you need a 2FA scheme that isn’t susceptible to phishing. Authenticator codes and SMS’s are just as easy to phish as passwords.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @thenthj

      they'd have to be phished in near real time to work. ~2 minute window? I'd say that moves the bar up quite a bit over "valid forever" username/password only

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @codinghorror @tqbf @thenthj

      Having trouble following what attack you're imagining, once attacker has logged in they get an authentication token that they use for whatever attack you wanted. Stealing money, reading email, whatever. That is not a high bar.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @codinghorror and

      You visit phishsite.php, you're already convinced it's your bank, so you enter your password. That php script submits creds (that is obviously possible in under 2 minutes), and then asks for OTP - you're already convinced it's bank, so you enter it. Where is the bar?

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    5. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @tqbf @thenthj

      oh, you're assuming there is fakebankpage.php server code that is attempting realbankpage.html passthrough login at the actual time of form submission? Possible, unless the login form is captcha'ed

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @codinghorror @tqbf @thenthj

      Attacker can just proxy whatever captcha necessary to you. Only real solution is U2F. This is a favourite argument of mine, I think SMS 2FA is worthless and needs to die 😛

      3 replies 1 retweet 23 likes
    7. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @tqbf @thenthj

      I guess my argument is that it's a process, and moving the bar to auth apps raises that bar. You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the people behind you ;) That plus Apple needs a far better nearfield / bluetooth key story

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @codinghorror @tqbf @thenthj

      It's certainly an economics problem for opportunistic attackers, they are rational and don't want to waste money adding support for 2FA users. That will yield 1% more victims for a lot of work...but when 90% users are 2FA users....

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @tqbf @thenthj

      proxying 2fa fields (or captcha) plus running a real headless browser is *FAR* more complex than a simple "present fake form, save entered form data to database" .. like 2 orders of magnitude harder, it is also extremely site specific & brittle if they update login form

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 5 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @codinghorror and

      Someone only has to solve it once, and then the phishing kit will be updated. If the phishing kit doesn't work, nobody will buy it, so they have no choice but to invest in a solution.

      4:37 PM - 5 Sep 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @tqbf @thenthj

          it's only valid security if you can actually get people to do it. I am supremely unconvinced hardware 2fa on a smartphone, and *particularly* iOS -- crosses that threshold today. In five years? maybe.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror 5 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @codinghorror @taviso and

          "hassle people about u2f" plus "give up on literally everything else in security that offers incremental improvements" is not a winning combo in my book. Cue "why not both gif girl" 😉

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 6 more replies

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