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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Brian Campbell‏ @__b_c 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker @hanno

      your point is taken. But given that it's optional and only used when negotiated by both parties in the TLS handshake, it doesn't seem that invasive to me.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @__b_c @RichFelker @hanno

      The argument I heard was that because this will break Antivirus (I'm the last person who would complain about that), they will just start being more invasive with hooks and patching. That's pretty convincing argument, bluecoat aren't just going to close down the business 😊

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. API ERROR‏ @SwiftOnSecurity 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @__b_c and

      I took it the other way, IMO, someone at MSFT mentioned it as another way to get endpoint TLS MitM further untenable

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity @__b_c and

      Right, but is that good or bad? They can switch to hooking and patching instead - they're going to do that, because they're business depends on that and they already need Admin to install cert. So did we make things better or worse?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @SwiftOnSecurity and

      If we could prevent endpoint mitm, you know I would be all for this, but aren't we just forcing them to be more sketchy?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @SwiftOnSecurity and

      It's true for regulated industries, but maybe it's time for that split. Token Binding allows for U2F tokens to be part of handshake and kills off MITM for 2FA auth, even with a good cert... But... Some industries have regulatory requirements to capture user generated content.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @mdhardeman @SwiftOnSecurity and

      I think you're saying that it will break TLS MITM middleware boxes (like bluecoat). True, but for those to work you already need Administrator access to endpoint (to install CA). If you have Admin, you can just hook and patch browser instead, which is worse!

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

      So I'm saying, it doesn't make TLS MITM untenable, it forces the vendors hand to do dangerous things. Do you want more security vendors patching around in chrome.exe? If we could prevent Administrators from MitMing endpoints, you better believe I would be hassling chrome devs 🤣

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

      Make it illegal to display the Chrome name and logo in a browser modified to support MITM.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

      Yep. DMCA, Copyright, and Trademark law certainly would enable this, particularly if you add some protective DRM even if it's only minimal. Let them do what they want under their own badged version of Chromium..

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @mdhardeman @RichFelker and

      Come on, you think you're in the right, but so do they and they have just as much money to spend on lawyers and lobbyists. Both sides are saying "we need to do this for security" and both sides think the users are on their side. Do you really believe this is easy? 😩

      1:06 PM - 22 Aug 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman 22 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          Of course it's not easy, but at least there's extant case law for unauthorized derivative works. Trademark law is pretty clear here too. If they effectively alter your product but keep your branding, it's an actionable violation.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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