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Profil korisnika/ce tacertain
Andrew Certain
Andrew Certain
Andrew Certain
@tacertain

Tweets

Andrew Certain

@tacertain

20-year Amazon veteran. Senior Principal Engineer in AWS in QLDB. All tweets are personal opinions, though some don't even rise to that level of thought. He/him

Seattle, WA
blog.tacertain.com
Vrijeme pridruživanja: ožujak 2011.

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    1. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      When I started at Amazon in 1998, there were 60 people in tech. Not 60 SDEs. 60 people total, including DBAs, SAs, TPMs, managers, etc. We were divided into two teams of roughly 30 people. Each team met every other week and all 60 met together in the alternate weeks.

      5 proslijeđenih tweetova 37 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    2. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      This setup didn't last. As we grew, it became impractical for us all to meet together, so we split into more and more units. But those team meetings aren't the story here - they're alpha. The real story is beta - and how it creeps in where you might not expect.

      1 reply 4 proslijeđena tweeta 32 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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    3. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      Part of the reason for Amazon's incredible success across a staggering array of ventures is our focus on pushing autonomy down as far as possible. Jeff said from the start, "I don't want to make communication more efficient - I want there to be less communication!"

      5 replies 104 proslijeđena tweeta 439 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    4. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      So we focused on creating small teams with clear business goals. Those teams of 30 were really subdivided into smaller teams. For example, when I started, there was a "search" team with four people and a "personalization and community" team with three.

      1 reply 6 proslijeđenih tweetova 64 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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    5. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      As we grew, these teams continued to split and specialize. So the three people on personalization and community became six and then split into two teams - one for personalization and one for community - allowing them to each grow to six.

      2 proslijeđena tweeta 30 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    6. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      By having two teams of six instead of a team of twelve, standup costs were capped, but that's not the main source of beta, it turns out. Just as in the USL applied to services, the main source of beta is coherency, or coming to consensus.

      1 reply 9 proslijeđenih tweetova 58 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    7. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      It's straightforward to take six people and split them into two disjoint teams. You just pick from the 20 possible combinations! 😉 But that doesn't magically partition either the software or the knowledge in their heads. Here's where beta really gets you.

      5 proslijeđenih tweetova 37 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    8. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      Some of the software is now shared between the two teams. These teams have different goals and priorities. Maybe one team wants to extend some functionality to be more flexible, but that would mean the other team has to adjust how they are using the shared software.

      1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 35 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    9. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      Now the teams have to spend time deciding the best way to make the changes, how valuable they are, etc. They would have had to have similar discussions if they were one team, but it's harder to achieve consensus among groups with different priorities.

      1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 46 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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    10. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      This is one reason that I insisted early on that our sub-teams share as little code as possible. Some of the engineers thought it was dumb that each of them were writing similar services to manage, say, the EC2 instances they needed.

      9 proslijeđenih tweetova 85 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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      Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
      • Prijavi Tweet

      "Duplicated effort" is an anathema to most developers. But for a new service, when you are figuring things out and need to move quickly, the cost of consensus can be crushing. It's better to have "duplicate" efforts and join them later if you figure out they really are the same.

      10:31 - 26. kol 2019.
      • 109 proslijeđenih tweetova
      • 495 oznaka „sviđa mi se”
      • Alex Casalboni Marcelo Costa Cristina Thibaud Desodt Corinna Baldauf Claudius Link Wang, Ted Deiwin Sarjas Zach
      7 replies 109 proslijeđenih tweetova 495 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
        1. Novi razgovor
        2. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Obviously, you do really need to have discussions about strategy, or software design, or whatever. Gathering different perspectives is important. Letting many people have a voice is important. You just need to be conscious of the cost and pay it when it's worth it.

          1 reply 3 proslijeđena tweeta 54 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        3. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          It's so easy in these discussions to become attached to being "right," and to continue to argue your position even if the other position is just different, or if it's unknowable which one will prove to be right. This is beta - remember that it has N² impact on productivity.

          1 reply 7 proslijeđenih tweetova 54 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        4. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Sometimes it is important to continue to argue. We make decisions every day that have lasting ramifications. But often it's really hard to know how the decisions will play out. What you do know is that time spent coming to consensus is time nobody is producing software.

          9 proslijeđenih tweetova 76 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        5. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          For more-senior people, especially, it can be hard to let things go when you think the path being proposed isn't the best. But try to ask yourself whether paying the cost of consensus delivers more than letting the less-senior person try it their way. You might be surprised!

          20 proslijeđenih tweetova 163 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        6. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Amazon has grown its tech community by an average of over 30% per year for over 20 years, so I've had a lot of opportunity to observe this process. And my observation is that it's hard for everybody to adjust to growth, regardless of their position on the team.

          1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 74 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        7. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Consider the least-senior member of the original personalization and community team. He was involved in all the strategy discussions for the combined team, got to weigh in on the software for both pieces - generally knew everything going on.

          1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 18 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        8. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          After the split, he is on one of the two teams, and is only participating in strategy discussions for that team. He probably isn't participating in the design discussions for the shared software. It feels like his world has shrunk.

          1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 18 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        9. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          In reality, the total complexity of the business goals and software being developed by the post-split team of six is commensurate with the original team. It's deeper, but it's not as broad or diverse, so it feels smaller.

          1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 33 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        10. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          On the other hand, consider the most-senior member of the original team. She maybe doesn't end up on either team, but rather carries responsibility for both. Her challenge is that she can no longer keep up with all the details on both teams to the same level.

          1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 33 korisnika označavaju da im se sviđa
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        11. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          She has to let go of decisions that she would have weighed in on if there were only six people total. Now that there are twelve on two teams, she has to figure out what she needs to pay attention to, and what should be completely delegated to people on the individual teams.

          1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 38 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        12. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Complicating this all is that it's not really a discrete process where you were on a team of six and wake up the next day to two teams of twelve. It's a continuous process where teams grow one person at a time and then semi-split-but-not-really-until-it-it's-way-too-many-people.

          1 reply 1 proslijeđeni tweet 26 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        13. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          I thought about this a lot when we were growing the QLDB team over the past year. I talked to the team about how they might find themselves feeling left out as teams split apart. I talked to them about the costs of consensus in decision making. I'm not sure how much it helped.

          1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 27 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        14. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          This is also why we haven't added very many people over the past six months. To Dr. Brooks' point, the cost of consensus goes up when you add new people. They have to be brought up to speed, they cause teams to split apart, etc.

          1 reply 2 proslijeđena tweeta 38 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        15. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Once things settle back down, beta goes down as well - people are dedicating more of their time to productive measures. Obviously the simple interpretation of the original tweet - that once the team grows you have permanently more communication - is wrong.

          2 proslijeđena tweeta 20 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        16. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          But I also see deep wisdom in the observation that the number of interactions goes up with the square of the number of participants. It's a call to be aware and intentional about the increasing costs of consensus so that you don't end up getting less done with more people.

          5 replies 10 proslijeđenih tweetova 61 korisnik označava da mu se sviđa
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        17. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          PS. A big thanks to @vijayravindran, who encouraged me to keep working on this thread when I was ready to give up trying to express myself in ... well ... coherent ... 280-character chunks.

          5 replies 1 proslijeđeni tweet 55 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        18. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 26. kol 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Andrew Certain je proslijedio/a tweet korisnika/ceAndrew Certain

          PPS. As always, if you like my stories, please also consider following these people and reading their stories. Since the tweet below, I've added @slooterman @taralconley @DadTrans @mssinenomine @ToriGlass @debcha @graceelavery @Cal__Montgomery et. alhttps://twitter.com/tacertain/status/1132660902963044353 …

          Andrew Certain je dodan/na,

          Andrew Certain @tacertain
          But as useful as my story might be, it's not nearly as important as stories that help us remember our shared humanity. No matter who you are, but especially if you're a cis white guy in tech like me, I encourage you to follow people different from you and listen to their stories.
          Prikaži ovu nit
          12 replies 3 proslijeđena tweeta 35 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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        19. Andrew Certain‏ @tacertain 9. ruj 2019.
          • Prijavi Tweet

          Due to popular demand, I have bloggified this thread:http://blog.tacertain.com/USL-and-MMM/ 

          3 proslijeđena tweeta 14 korisnika označava da im se sviđa
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