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stephendpalley's profile
Palley
Palley
Palley
@stephendpalley

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Palley

@stephendpalley

Lawyer. Trials and disputes. Personal account. Not legal or literary advice. "I contain multitudes."

D.C.
linkedin.com/in/stephendpal…
Joined June 2014

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    1. Angela Walch‏ @angela_walch Apr 7

      Angela Walch Retweeted Muneeb Ali

      #Codersasfiduciarieshttps://twitter.com/muneeb/status/982583455899963393 …

      Angela Walch added,

      Muneeb AliVerified account @muneeb
      A world that runs on computers is a place where those who can program the computers will control it all.
      Show this thread
      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    2. Andrew Miller  🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @socrates1024 Apr 7
      Replying to @angela_walch

      I have a strong negative reaction to the #codersasfiduciaries argument so I'm inclined to pursue it, but finding it difficult to articulate why. Are there any historical examples when a class was declared fiduciaries but it was a bad idea?

      6 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. Angela Walch‏ @angela_walch Apr 7
      Replying to @socrates1024

      Great question for me to look into. Not sure off the top of my head.

      3 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
    4. Vlad Zamfir‏ @VladZamfir Apr 7
      Replying to @angela_walch @socrates1024

      It seems pretty clear to me that "coders" are only fiduciaries inasfar as they have the power to take responsibility, and that will depend on the particular governance processes and norms

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
      Replying to @VladZamfir @angela_walch @socrates1024

      Coders are fiduciaries if they act as fiduciaries. It's not binary. There's a well-established body of case law that explains what a fiduciary is.

      2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
    6. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
      Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

      Now lawyers generally *are* fiduciaries. We're trained to take on those obligations. I don't why anyone would want to become one by accident, in the breach.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
      Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

      I've said for a long time -- usually to objection by programmers -- that certain types of programming should require a license. If you want to be an "engineer", be licensed and insured as one. Otherwise, stop saying you're a "software engineer".

      7:45 AM - 7 Apr 2018
      • 7 Likes
      • Samir Patel Byron Gibson Tim Swanson Harley McKee Damien McElvanna Cris Carrascosa Drago Indjic
      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          Building important things -- bridges, roads, sewers, airplanes, for e.g. -- all require professional training and licensure. In the US, buildings and bridges generally don't fall down. Don't at me with exceptions. Nothing is perfect.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          If programmers want to build similarly important critical infrastructure they should welcome similarly important educational and licensure requirements.

          3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          But my building a ruby on rails website using my amateur skills and some stackexchange and dr. google to build a site that returns random emily dickinson quotes and cheese photos doesn't make me a coder that is a fiduciary.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          ps -- that muneeb guy should read the foundation trilogy. there's some hubris and delusion at work here in many of our programmer priests. you don't know what you don't know. and it gets you eventually.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Vlad Zamfir‏ @VladZamfir Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @angela_walch @socrates1024

          I hear you, but I think holding software companies liable for damages caused by their software malfunctioning would be a better start than licensing devs Seems today like big software companies are not really liable for the failure or hacking of their software

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Andrew Miller  🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @socrates1024 Apr 7
          Replying to @VladZamfir @stephendpalley @angela_walch

          This is roughly what I think too... my position is that the focus of trust/duty should be on the sale, marketing, and presenting as fit-for-use of code, rather than the act of writing code itself

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Anja Blaj‏ @AnjaBlaj Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          Good one. Who’s gonna give a license to a ‘software engineer’ with an idea affecting global community?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Anja Blaj‏ @AnjaBlaj Apr 7
          Replying to @AnjaBlaj @stephendpalley and

          As far as i understand this concept exists so we can all share the benefit, the control over such ‘software’ is more democratic and so are the risks.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @AnjaBlaj @VladZamfir and

          How do people who can't code engage in this so-called democracy? Color me extremely skeptical, sorry.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Andrew Miller  🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @socrates1024 Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @AnjaBlaj and

          If this were about literacy and written word rather than coding, what would be different? In the past when literacy was rare would it have been appropriate to apply licensing requirements to writers?

          3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        6. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @socrates1024 @AnjaBlaj and

          🍎 & 🍊

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @socrates1024 and

          Also, some writing DOES require a license. If you want to file a brief for someone in court you need a license.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Andrew Miller  🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @socrates1024 Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @AnjaBlaj and

          It's the filing that matters there, not the writing itself, right?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Palley‏ @stephendpalley Apr 7
          Replying to @socrates1024 @AnjaBlaj and

          It's a distinction without a difference.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. Damien McElvanna‏ @damiendamien Apr 7
          Replying to @stephendpalley @VladZamfir and

          This would make programming a closed shop. Look at medicine. Since self-taught surgeons were outlawed costs have gone sky high.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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