Four-way stops are degenerate roundabouts.
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I mean this in a geometric sense: you have traffic flows from different directions pointed at each other, and traffic proceeds in pulses through them. In SF you frequently see four-way stops where cars have all but given up on truly stopping.
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I hold that any four-way stop in a city should be rehabilitated into a traffic vortex (roundabout or traffic circle) instead of trying to dealer-shuffle cars at each other through intersections.
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I am with you. But SF also tried them and the learning curve/change aversion is real. It’s like our addiction to standard vs metric.
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My abiding hope and faith in human ability to learn new things is definitely in play, but also four way stops seem bad and worse the more usage they see - an impediment to density. You’ve got to move in the right direction.
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Entire countries have switched from left-side to right-side driving before, so I feel confident that there is a way to move to roundabouts. Perhaps the rollout and not the roundabout is the issue?
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With whose budget for land acquisition?
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I mean.. good question but that won’t really sway my view that roundabouts are a far better design choice. Also just selecting tweets from my mentions here but this seems doable within reason:https://mobile.twitter.com/sigfpe/status/973022455378755584 …
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I live in Massachusetts. Only a physical barrier will work. Mass. drivers cross solid lines all the time and never yield.
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It probably does work better in Washington State: drivers are aggressively polite there.
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Heck, half of Seattle has neither stop signs nor roundabouts. You just slow down, check for traffic, then come to a grinding halt whilst *insisting* that the other person go first. No, you go. No, really, you go. It's okay, you go. No, no, please, you go first...
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Berkeley has built a number of traffic circles. But then didn't remove the stop signs. It somehow ends up being the worst of both. Plus when they plant trees in the middle you can't see what's coming around until it's on top of you.
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So does everyone from the UK, including my UK driving instructor who went on a BUT HOW ARE THEY EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK rant about 4-ways.
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I hold that 90% of stop signs should be yield signs, but 95% of drivers don't know wtf those mean, so we're stuck.
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Mission Bay has a surprising number of roundabouts!
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I didn't really get roundabouts until I rented a manual in the UK. I found them much easier/more fun when I could *tell* the transmission what to do rather than pray it picked the right gear.
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(Foot off throttle in 3rd gear on approach, look right for oncoming traffic; if no traffic, open throttle and go through; if oncoming traffic, drop to 2nd and try to slip behind while being ready to stop... since an automatic can't look right it has no idea what to do)
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are roundabouts better for pedestrian safety? my anecdotal evidence says definitely not, as drivers are more focused watching for oncoming traffic than people.
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If we have to keep the four way stops, people should at least learn how they’re supposed to work
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Every time I come back from a trip to France I get so frustrated having to stop at a stop sign. With roundabouts you just keep going 80% of the time, rarely drop below 20mph.
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In the UK they just paint a white circle in the middle of an intersection and like magic it's a roundabout and the traffic can keep moving.
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