Had a little fun last week w/ this Q & subsequent answers. HOWEVER, the discussion prompted an actual Q for me that sits at the intersection of covenant theology & gender. Would love feedback (1)https://twitter.com/sometimesalight/status/1050772746836332545 …
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As a baptist, I've never had to think about this before but it presents interesting Qs & even potential dilemmas.
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(By way of disclaimer, I'm using language of "gendered" in populist meaning. "Sexed" is probably more accurate.)
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Word on the street is that
@zugzwanged has likely thought & written many words on this & it's likely good. Alastair's worked w/ both baptism Qs & gender Qs so this probably sits directly in his wheelhouse.Show this thread
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Christ fulfills circumcision. The flesh is 'cut off' in his death, he is the son of the woman whose shed blood cleanses his mother/bride. Another sheds his blood for us. Everybody washed for uncleanness in OT. FWIW, ancient church baptized nekked & segregated
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So you're saying baptism parallels purification rites, not circumsion, right? I've always found this more satisfying explanation which is likely why I'm a baptist
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that there IS a sign of entry to the covenant is a parallel to circumcision. that the FORM of the sign is *definitive* washing is not to denigrate the circ<>baptism root idea of a covenant entry sign.
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Duane Spencer's book on baptism is big on the washing background of baptism and hes paedo. I think I'm not suprised that the NC goes in a different direction with the form of the covenant sign, being New and all.
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Okay, I think I see the distinction btwn sign & form. So male body carries the sign but all are initiated through water?
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OT or NT? There is a typological initiation of the nation by water at the red sea/cloud (which rained! psalm 77:17) but I'd say prior to that the family is included in the circumicsion sign in the OT generally
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Could you say that the form is consistent but the sign is fulfilled in Christ?
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sure? which form: washing with water?
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The gist of this is the gospel and how it parallels Israel's role in the world. God appointed a small nation to be his envoys to the world, but his grace was always for everyone. So he set up Israel to be a light to the world and draw the nations to him.
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Right, I understand covenant theology's link btwn circumcision & baptism as it relates to Israel & the Church. I'm wondering about how gender factors in. Circumsicion is inherently male, limited. But under new covenant, baptism is not limited by sex.
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So the Church shines as beacon in the world the same way Israel did. But entrance into the covenant promises of Israel was through circumcision & household lines. Covenant theology preserves household concept, but baptism is extended to both male & female infants.
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Right, and that elevates, even liberates, women in a cultural sense, but that's probably as much as I can say.
@aimeebyrdhwt may be able to knock this question out of the park. -
I'm just a bit unsettled that I'm only now thinking about this. That's what being baptist will do for you. Lol.
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The door is open for you to come to the light. Presbyterians (PCA) have better coffee, I mean, theology. *cough* Sorry, I've got something in my throat.
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I’ve long wondered that too! It seems to me the gendered notion of circumcision might/ought to be viewed as an indication of its limited nature. The fuller inclusion of the gospel/New Covenant requires a fuller signification of our immersive union with Christ.
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That makes sense w/ Joel's words that the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh & sons & daughters will prophesy. That presents some interesting dilemmas for conservatives though.
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At the very least, it requires greater attention to the work of the Spirit thru *all* believers & suggests that covenant theologians should be the most open to charisma & gifts. Ironically enough.
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