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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @davidbrunelle @brad_frost

      I get why it can seem like old-guard trying to gatekeep. I'm no fan of CSS (in general) and grok how this can help. Just saying help vs. hurt is currently -- at a minimum -- a contended question.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Brad Frost‏ @brad_frost 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @davidbrunelle

      As a browser person, I bet you have some pretty wild reasons for not being a fan of CSS!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

      No man, I just hate global variables ;-) But seriously, Shadow DOM is the answer to CSS in the same way that "structured programming" is the answer to assembly.

      4 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Stephanie Rewis‏ @stefsull 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

      Can you expound a little, my friend? I struggle with this...

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @stefsull @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

      CSS w/o Shadow DOM puts all rules and all elements into the same namespace for rule resolution. This creates all sorts of problems; specificity breaks down at scale.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @stefsull and

      Shadow DOM is like a function: local stuff is local, which reduces burden on global namespace while making internal concerns easier to reason about.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Stephanie Rewis‏ @stefsull 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

      Yes, that I understand. It was your Assembly reference. ;) Regardless, I've helped architect a CSS framework for an Enterprise company using principles that have avoided the things that scare y'all about CSS.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Stephanie Rewis‏ @stefsull 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @stefsull @slightlylate and

      But Shadow DOM works opposite of how a well-architected framework works. And it's not compatible in many ways.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Stephanie Rewis‏ @stefsull 8 May 2018
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      Replying to @stefsull @slightlylate and

      It feels like making it all local takes the C out of CSS. In fact, in some ways it kinda reverses it. CSS is really okay. It's not an untamed beast, just a different, very powerful beast. Whatever. It is what it is. I just wish we could finish that spec about theming. ;)

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 May 2018
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      Replying to @stefsull @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

      I think of it as returning CSS to what it's good at: styling small trees. By making components responsible for their own internal 🌲 state, reduce the "bleed through" that makes managing styles so painful. Good progress being made on part/theme: https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/5763933658939392 …

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @stefsull and

      And is CSS really ok? There has been an explosion of tools whose primary value is that they turn off specificity and the cascade (Inc CSS-in-JS tools). Teaching the "C" is a nightmare. Folks rightly want fewer foot-guns.

      4:07 AM - 9 May 2018
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      • Simeon.__proto__ Rhy Moore David Brunelle Masataka Yakura @c̲hris̲epps̲tein
      4 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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        2. Stephanie Rewis‏ @stefsull 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

          I think CSS is fine, but I've worked with it for about 15 years. I understand it & I appreciate how it works. Most of these tools feel like they're just made for people that don't want to understand CSS & they try to make it more like JS. But I realize I'm probably a minority.

          2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @stefsull @brad_frost @davidbrunelle

          I have a hard time arguing folks are wrong when they want to localize the effects of their decisions. Basically every programming abstraction is this because it makes complexity approachable.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 8 more replies
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        2. @c̲hris̲epps̲tein‏ @chriseppstein 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @stefsull and

          Specificity and document order is a heuristic for resolution. It is meaningful and accurate at small scales, but nonsensical at scale. That’s why CSS Blocks introduces an explicit, per property resolution primitive. https://github.com/linkedin/css-blocks/blob/master/README.md#block-resolutions …

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @chriseppstein @stefsull and

          Yeah, I'm seeing many systems disable the heuristics by enforcing zero descendant selector constraints. Needs platform support.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @stefsull and

          @ojanvafai and I have discussed a feature policy to disable descendant selectors. It'd enable some pretty big perf wins, but more importantly, it might make CSS livable again (particularly in combination with SD)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Rhy Moore‏ @morewry 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @stefsull and

          I think it's okay, but can be better. I think we need CSS and HTML modules. WC specs already do a big chunk of what I mean by that. But still rely almost entirely on JS & build to get the full impact. We're gonna have to work through it step by step.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rhy Moore‏ @morewry 9 May 2018
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          Replying to @morewry @slightlylate and

          I'm a little out of the loop on how styling for Shadow DOM is evolving rn, but there's some neat stuff you can accomplish with CSS Modules and WCs. Sadly, it relies on duplicating the styles atm.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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