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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. вкαя∂εℓℓ‏ @briankardell Mar 26
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      Replying to @adactio @zachleat

      вкαя∂εℓℓ Retweeted Alex Russell

      not sure how to explain better what I am confused about, I'm sorry, I swear I am really trying. You saw https://twitter.com/slightlylate/status/1242992825177788417 … in your other thread replies right? Other browsers already seem to have two kinds/v similar qualities in this regard? No?

      вкαя∂εℓℓ added,

      Alex Russell @slightlylate
      Replying to @briankardell @adactio and 3 others
      In Chrome, we use an LRU and evict whole origins. Partial eviction of script-exposed storage is a recipe for confusion.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Jeremy Keith‏Verified account @adactio Mar 26
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      Replying to @briankardell @zachleat

      I think when I (or someone else) says the word “enhancement” what you hear is “*just* an enhancement”—I think that may be at the heart of your Colombo-like feigned confusion.https://adactio.com/notes/16625 

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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      Replying to @adactio @briankardell @zachleat

      Popping up a bit, a slightly more generous way to read Apple's new policy is that it degrades their (already bad) web storage limits to the point where the _only_ safehaven is installation to the homescreen.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @adactio and

      This is inline with Chrome (et. al.'s) construction of a two-tier system, wherein sites that are installed get "more" in various ways. We've been careful not to break things between these modes, and only hang app-mode enhancements on installation, not basics (like storage).

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @adactio and

      What's different here is that Apple is explicitly making web-in-a-tab non-durable, whereas we've *enhanced* the durability of web-in-a-tab recently.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. вкαя∂εℓℓ‏ @briankardell Mar 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @adactio @zachleat

      maybe I am misreading your and @wanderview's replies. That would clear a lot. *Specifically* if you could answer just y/n: other than specific details abt durability/storage differences, is this fundamentally different than ff/chrome in 2 tiers/durable not permanant/use matters?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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      Replying to @briankardell @adactio and

      At the limit they are the same (origin-wide eviction under pressure). What's different is that we aren't trying to apply more pressure, so incidence of eviction is *wildly* different. In all cases, if users want to keep it, we need to get them to add to install.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Ben Kelly‏ @wanderview Mar 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @briankardell and

      I think there is a big difference between evicting under storage pressure (legit resource constraints) and deterministic wiping after arbitrary time periods.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. вкαя∂εℓℓ‏ @briankardell Mar 26
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      Replying to @wanderview @slightlylate and

      Specifically: Why and how it chooses to apply time to the equation in browsers (not running as pwa) is the only difference tho, right? Just confirming that I understand correctly before I ask one more question..

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Jeremy Keith‏Verified account @adactio Mar 26
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      Replying to @briankardell @wanderview @slightlylate

      pic.twitter.com/YPkqmmjs4R

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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      Replying to @adactio @briankardell and

      Jeremy, I see what you're saying, but there's an important mis-communication in your blog post that @briankardell is clearing up: https://adactio.com/journal/16619  You say "Caches, Local Storage, Indexed DB—all of those are subject to eventually getting cleaned up." ...but *atomically*

      9:30 AM - 26 Mar 2020
      • 1 Like
      • вкαя∂εℓℓ
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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          Replying to @slightlylate @adactio and

          That is, browsers are uniform (thankfully) in treating SW registrations like all other origin-controlled storage types and deciding not to do partial eviction. That is, you can't "wake up" as a SW and find your Caches are still there but not your IDB.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
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          Replying to @slightlylate @adactio and

          So joint eviction is good policy for app coherence. SW registrations aren't special in this way. That's a good thing. The correct focus here is on the *outlandish* reduction in durability for pages in a tab.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 5 more replies
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        2. Ben Kelly‏ @wanderview Mar 26
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          Replying to @slightlylate @adactio and

          And in chrome/firefox, only if the browser comes under storage pressure. For many users that never happens.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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