Yep - this is IMO where mindset needs to shift. An app framework is in a VERY privileged & trusted spot to achieve dynamic resource scheduling. Hearing app framework opts touted while punting on doing for userlibs is nails-on-chalkboard for me. A LOT to lazy load... downstream.
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As in, better code splitting? That's one of the most effective remediations for folks today, along with removing unneeded transpiler passes and auditing dependencies. Suspect fewer teams would find themselves in trouble if view frameworks aggressively recommended.
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Yep, and stronger words than "aggressively reccomend" RE:framework size, it sounds like on-device cached load is the technical need, with inability to cache in 2020 being more ideological. So that's the benchmark of framework cost: device CPU (warm) vs. disk (cold)
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It's not ideology, it's hard privacy and security constraints + an ecosystem that has hardened practice against it. Unwinding that is <= effort to fix controllable aspects of sites. And just to be clear: React is *uniquely* bloated.
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We've come full circle: React isn't bloated; the sites built with React, Vue, Preact, and everything else that doesn't enforce lazy loading etc. are victims of framework-induced bloat. And we can't be in a world of adwords+chrome yet say caching is Bad.
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Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and
(or we can, but that is ideology: the technology solutions are working around corporate/gov political fails)
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Sorry, no. React is many times the size of it's nearest competition and that both sets unrealistic baseline expectations (which its community defends) and for sites that are working hard to get close to reasonable, that size difference *does* matter.
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Except in this thread you haven't shown a cached page, even in the extreme mobile case, has costs on React, and we agreed that for most sites on the web and most dev hours, the bigger issue is React & friends don't make it easy to lazy load apps on top. So I don't see #'s...
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The React ecosystem and all the libraries that are built for it (React, Immutable, Apollo, react-* stuff like date pickers etc.) are all too large though. So in practice we're talking about downloading lots of code before any user code is ever loaded. Folks don't load only React.
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Also to make it clear, I like React's ergonomics, their engineers are all super smart, and the community is full of fantastic people. Two things can be true though: the framework can be great, and it can also be too large. :)
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Also, I have dozens of traces of cached pages where late long tasks on React-driven UIs are several sigma out from reasonable. When you spend multiple seconds "rehydrating" (de riguer in React land on slow HW) you can't be fast on first *or* next load.
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