I mean "know what they're doing" in the most literal sense. In cases where sites perform well, teams have knowledge of (and mastery over) the contents of their bundle.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
And core framework size *would* be determinant for a large fraction of sites if they were setting reasonable budgets/targets. What I mostly observe in debates is that core lib size isn't the issue only because so much else is unknown/unaccounted-for.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
100K of critical-path JS on first load, for a mobile site that has a broad audience, is about right. If you're taking 35-40K of that for your *view framework*, that's...a lot.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
...and because view framework choice sets up so many other choices, it's imperative that these view frameworks message reasonable limits and goals to their users. React's...challenges...there are at least twofold.
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1/3. I'm glad you agree that it is way more impactful for almost everyone for frameworks to solve the size problem for apps on top, vs trimming 50KB from the framework. I encourage people to switch from evaluating & evangelizing framework size to that!
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Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and
2/3. Personal note: Apologies for using the colloquial interp of "who know what they're doing". As a language & system designer, I'm sensitive to when we push our inability to solve problems to our users, especially for enabling a wider pyramid of folks.
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Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and
3/3. I'm curious for state of the art (for reasonable *super low* effort): What is the cost of those extra ~50KB? - Network: ~none b/c cdn/vendor cache - Parsing: light to beginwith - Lazy interp: 10ms? 50ms?
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Good question! I've been digging into what the probable (global) P75 and P90 devices & networks for Q2'21 will be. There's actually some good news on the network front. Devices, not so much.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
The network situation has gotten pretty good compared to old 2G-ish baselines, even in the rural US, but oversubscription remains a major challenge even when you have "4G". I predict a 3Mbps connection will be a reasonable "slow" target over the next year or so.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
If you set a 5 second window to interactive, and ignore all connection setup and client processing costs, you can get something like 1.5MiB of data to a client in that window. But the clients and site designs make the target much harder in practice.
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Most sites I trace that have H/2 enabled *still* have (at least) two critical-path HTTP connections to set up. Assuming 2 connections and a P75-speed device, we cut that 1.5MiB to something like 500K. Each additional connection you need to set up subtracts an additional 50K.
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
That P75 device is likely to have a Snapdragon 625; something like the Redmi S2: https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_redmi_s2_(redmi_y2)-9185.php …
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Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and
P90-concerned sites -- folks that need to reach all users; think budget-market e-commerce, govt sites, etc. -- are on a much tougher budget this time next year. At the margin, networks aren't going to have even 3Mbps; so let's sub in 1.6Mbps as that's "fast 3G" today.
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