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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      Worse, phrasing like "teams that know what they're doing" is this exact kind of shaming for grossly incorrect technical reasons.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      (And to be clear: I'm 100% on evangelizing awareness around code overheads - that's a premise in a lot of my day job - but core app framework size is being weaponized incorrectly, afaict, for marketing or ignorance.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      I mean "know what they're doing" in the most literal sense. In cases where sites perform well, teams have knowledge of (and mastery over) the contents of their bundle.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      And core framework size *would* be determinant for a large fraction of sites if they were setting reasonable budgets/targets. What I mostly observe in debates is that core lib size isn't the issue only because so much else is unknown/unaccounted-for.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      100K of critical-path JS on first load, for a mobile site that has a broad audience, is about right. If you're taking 35-40K of that for your *view framework*, that's...a lot.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      ...and because view framework choice sets up so many other choices, it's imperative that these view frameworks message reasonable limits and goals to their users. React's...challenges...there are at least twofold.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      1/3. I'm glad you agree that it is way more impactful for almost everyone for frameworks to solve the size problem for apps on top, vs trimming 50KB from the framework. I encourage people to switch from evaluating & evangelizing framework size to that!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      2/3. Personal note: Apologies for using the colloquial interp of "who know what they're doing". As a language & system designer, I'm sensitive to when we push our inability to solve problems to our users, especially for enabling a wider pyramid of folks.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      3/3. I'm curious for state of the art (for reasonable *super low* effort): What is the cost of those extra ~50KB? - Network: ~none b/c cdn/vendor cache - Parsing: light to beginwith - Lazy interp: 10ms? 50ms?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      Good question! I've been digging into what the probable (global) P75 and P90 devices & networks for Q2'21 will be. There's actually some good news on the network front. Devices, not so much.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      The network situation has gotten pretty good compared to old 2G-ish baselines, even in the rural US, but oversubscription remains a major challenge even when you have "4G". I predict a 3Mbps connection will be a reasonable "slow" target over the next year or so.

      3:06 PM - 13 Mar 2020
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        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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          Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

          If you set a 5 second window to interactive, and ignore all connection setup and client processing costs, you can get something like 1.5MiB of data to a client in that window. But the clients and site designs make the target much harder in practice.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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          Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

          Most sites I trace that have H/2 enabled *still* have (at least) two critical-path HTTP connections to set up. Assuming 2 connections and a P75-speed device, we cut that 1.5MiB to something like 500K. Each additional connection you need to set up subtracts an additional 50K.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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