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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 12
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      For mobile, the question isn't (usually) the framework size; as you note. However, teams that are doing well on bundle size *almost universally* reject tools as heavy as React. 30K might not be the difference, but it strongly indicates a team that knows what they're doing.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    2. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      I'm not sure what that tells us - most folks do not optimize their code irrespective of framework, so I'd expect the most popular frameworks to have slower sites on average by definition.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      Worse, phrasing like "teams that know what they're doing" is this exact kind of shaming for grossly incorrect technical reasons.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      (And to be clear: I'm 100% on evangelizing awareness around code overheads - that's a premise in a lot of my day job - but core app framework size is being weaponized incorrectly, afaict, for marketing or ignorance.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      I mean "know what they're doing" in the most literal sense. In cases where sites perform well, teams have knowledge of (and mastery over) the contents of their bundle.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      And core framework size *would* be determinant for a large fraction of sites if they were setting reasonable budgets/targets. What I mostly observe in debates is that core lib size isn't the issue only because so much else is unknown/unaccounted-for.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      100K of critical-path JS on first load, for a mobile site that has a broad audience, is about right. If you're taking 35-40K of that for your *view framework*, that's...a lot.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @lmeyerov and

      ...and because view framework choice sets up so many other choices, it's imperative that these view frameworks message reasonable limits and goals to their users. React's...challenges...there are at least twofold.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @slightlylate @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      1/3. I'm glad you agree that it is way more impactful for almost everyone for frameworks to solve the size problem for apps on top, vs trimming 50KB from the framework. I encourage people to switch from evaluating & evangelizing framework size to that!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. lmeyerov‏ @lmeyerov Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @slightlylate and

      2/3. Personal note: Apologies for using the colloquial interp of "who know what they're doing". As a language & system designer, I'm sensitive to when we push our inability to solve problems to our users, especially for enabling a wider pyramid of folks.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 13
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      Replying to @lmeyerov @ElliottZ @dalmaer

      and I apologize for using loaded language w/o clarifying! Very much my bad.

      2:59 PM - 13 Mar 2020
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