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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov Jan 26
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      Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and

      Not nefariously, but Apple has less incentive in the web winning, and underinvests in Safari. Now, imagine Google, trying desperately to get the Web to win, but gets beat up for it because it doesn't always wait for perfect consensus. Again, G err'd with aSS, but not much more.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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      Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and

      The problem with “wanting the web to win”, but not being willing to wait for consensus about what the web *should be* is that it turn the _open_ web into Google’s web. Which is just another way of destroying the web.

      2 replies 13 retweets 33 likes
    3. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov Jan 26
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      Replying to @plinss @slightlylate and

      Again, it depends what you mean by consensus! Do you mean full absolutely zero detractors every time consensus? Even given unequal investment and motivation from all participants? Or do you mean Rough Consensus, where sometimes a thing has to move from theory to reality to learn?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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      Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and

      Consensus doesn’t mean unanimity, but it has to mean more than “what Google thinks is a good idea”. Google has some great engineers, but they’re not always right, and can’t possibly take everyone else’s needs and views into account in isolation.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Jan 26
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      Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and

      We force our engineers through this laborious, time-consuming, open process and challenge them to show their work *exactly* because we know we're likely to be wrong in some ways. The TAG gets consulted *for this very reason*. We're us-skeptics too!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and

      And that is appreciated more than you realize, but it doesn’t equate to “we’re doing this well enough that there’s no need for competing engines with other approaches, needs, and viewpoints”.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Jan 26
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      Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and

      Again, that's categorically not what happened here (because our process works to prevent it). Follow the links and look at the evidence: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/308 … https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!msg/blink-dev/irhrlr6n5YQ/LOS8xSGsBwAJ …https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!topic/blink-dev/gL2EVBzO5og/discussion …

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and

      I wasn’t replying to the specific issue of constructible stylesheets but to your statement about “engine diversity absolutists”.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Jan 26
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      Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and

      I see. The statement was a request for a better argument than a blanket appeal to engine diversity as the highest good. We can both trivially imagine scenarios in which we achieve a multitude of engines but fail on most other dimensions, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and

      Of course. We can also imagine scenarios where we fall into another browser monoculture and fail to take the web in the best possible direction, right? As I said, there’s tension, that’s a *good* thing, even when it’s painful. It keeps us all honest and doing our best.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Jan 26
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      Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and

      Now we're getting somewhere! Browser monocultures of yore happened pre-OSS. How does that change the calculus? Browser monoculture implies engine monoculture, but the inverse isn't strictly true, right?

      10:26 AM - 26 Jan 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • ⚖️Rhona Gibson⚖️ Justin Donnelly
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. Peter Linss‏ @plinss Jan 26
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          Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and

          You’re not seriously saying engine monoculture would be a good thing, are you? And FWIW, Gecko went open source in the 90s, prior to the monoculture desert. Having an open source engine isn’t enough to prevent that.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Jan 26
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          Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and

          I'm not making claims that monoculture is good *or* bad. It presents risk, tho. In MSFTs example, big realised risk was disinvestment. On Gecko; wasn't NN/Mozilla's shipping engine until the 00s, right? I ran the nightlies, but it wasn't 1.0 until 2002, IIRC.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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