Not nefariously, but Apple has less incentive in the web winning, and underinvests in Safari. Now, imagine Google, trying desperately to get the Web to win, but gets beat up for it because it doesn't always wait for perfect consensus. Again, G err'd with aSS, but not much more.
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Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and
The problem with “wanting the web to win”, but not being willing to wait for consensus about what the web *should be* is that it turn the _open_ web into Google’s web. Which is just another way of destroying the web.
2 replies 13 retweets 33 likes -
Replying to @plinss @slightlylate and
Again, it depends what you mean by consensus! Do you mean full absolutely zero detractors every time consensus? Even given unequal investment and motivation from all participants? Or do you mean Rough Consensus, where sometimes a thing has to move from theory to reality to learn?
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Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and
Consensus doesn’t mean unanimity, but it has to mean more than “what Google thinks is a good idea”. Google has some great engineers, but they’re not always right, and can’t possibly take everyone else’s needs and views into account in isolation.
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Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and
We force our engineers through this laborious, time-consuming, open process and challenge them to show their work *exactly* because we know we're likely to be wrong in some ways. The TAG gets consulted *for this very reason*. We're us-skeptics too!
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and
And that is appreciated more than you realize, but it doesn’t equate to “we’re doing this well enough that there’s no need for competing engines with other approaches, needs, and viewpoints”.
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Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and
Again, that's categorically not what happened here (because our process works to prevent it). Follow the links and look at the evidence: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/308 … https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!msg/blink-dev/irhrlr6n5YQ/LOS8xSGsBwAJ …https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!topic/blink-dev/gL2EVBzO5og/discussion …
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and
I wasn’t replying to the specific issue of constructible stylesheets but to your statement about “engine diversity absolutists”.
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Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and
I see. The statement was a request for a better argument than a blanket appeal to engine diversity as the highest good. We can both trivially imagine scenarios in which we achieve a multitude of engines but fail on most other dimensions, right?
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and
Of course. We can also imagine scenarios where we fall into another browser monoculture and fail to take the web in the best possible direction, right? As I said, there’s tension, that’s a *good* thing, even when it’s painful. It keeps us all honest and doing our best.
1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
Now we're getting somewhere! Browser monocultures of yore happened pre-OSS. How does that change the calculus? Browser monoculture implies engine monoculture, but the inverse isn't strictly true, right?
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov and
You’re not seriously saying engine monoculture would be a good thing, are you? And FWIW, Gecko went open source in the 90s, prior to the monoculture desert. Having an open source engine isn’t enough to prevent that.
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Replying to @plinss @mikesherov and
I'm not making claims that monoculture is good *or* bad. It presents risk, tho. In MSFTs example, big realised risk was disinvestment. On Gecko; wasn't NN/Mozilla's shipping engine until the 00s, right? I ran the nightlies, but it wasn't 1.0 until 2002, IIRC.
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