The takeaway for you, as a web developer is this: dissent of one engine (or even multiple) to a proposal requires an *exrtordinary* amount of background info to unpack, let alone judge well. If you are only watching the performative aspects of the pagent, you'll be disempowered.
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Replying to @ChrisFerdinandi
You didn't. You ended up with a proposal to prototype toast and gather feedback. Conflating them is, minimum, disingenuous. You're better than that, Chris.
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Replying to @slightlylate @ChrisFerdinandi
But what <toast> highlighted, more than anything, was how standards processes are abused by folks looking to distract from their own lack of proposals and leadership. Nobody mounting high horses abt <toast> was volunteering resources to research counter-proposals, IIRC.
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Replying to @slightlylate
If Google implements something that developers can use outside of an official standards process, whether it's "officially released" or not is irrelevant. Chrome feels a lot like the new IE6 in terms of "we just do what we want"
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Replying to @ChrisFerdinandi
You must have missed all of NN 2, 3, and, and 4 then. This also badly misrepresents IE6 vs 5.5 and 4 which were the path-breakers. If anything, 6 was change towards conciliation.
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Replying to @slightlylate @ChrisFerdinandi
By then the damage was done, and couldn't be undone without breaking tons of existing sites. And so we're *still* dealing with the repercussions 20 years on. This is where the blowback comes from. Call it an overreaction, maybe, but it's not without cause.
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Nobody is fetishizing standards for their own sake. It's just honest concern that another powerful company with > 80% market share risks repeating the mistakes of the last one. It's great that Google wants to push the web forward. But some critical pushback is also healthy.
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Replying to @JLunman @ChrisFerdinandi
"the damage" was that MSFT stopped investing. IE6, on day 0, was *far and away* the world's best browser. It gave us most of today's web development jobs. And you know what? It treated properties and attrs the same. Literally fixed the thing that the standard subsequently broke
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Replying to @slightlylate @JLunman
With IE6, MS also just did whatever the fuck they wanted outside of a standards process. This response from you unfortunately very telling. I don't know if you were around for the browser wars or not, but it feels like you didn't learn from them.
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Did you ever develop anything on/for NN4? It was the concurrent competition during the IE4-6 dev cycles. Counterfactuals matter. Netscape did what they damned well pleased, and it was horrifying.
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MSFTs CSS impl was vastly better. Their DOM had warts, but was also closer to the eventual spec than anything Netscape released. Folks want to dress up '02-07 as though MSFT had done something to subvert standards...reality: they'd stopped investing.
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