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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and

      I think you're missing the point here — there is real confusion caused by the dual interface of attributes and properties. The C++ implementation is utterly irrelevant to me as a component author and consumer

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and

      I grok the point. That DOM has both is clearly not great! MSFT's DOM was correct (and Netscape/IBM were *super* wrong). But if you want property-only components, or want to only handle attributes up-front, can do that today. What's missing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      I mean, if you're saying "we want syntactic support for a version of HTML that relies on properties", that's doable but a big lift. Size of effort is perhaps part of why JSX crowd continues with fork instead of proposing new parsing mode?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and

      > What's missing? Predictability. Consistency between components. The React model is so successful in part because of its obviousness — there's only one way to get data into a component > if you're saying ... I'm not. I think HTML is fine

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and

      ...but it's HTML that *creates* this split. WC only give you high fidelity access to both sides. If you want property-only components, go nuts! It's all there.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and

      "go nuts, it's all there" is *the whole problem*. When an API is well-designed, there's usually only one way to do something

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and

      Then don't use attributes in your elements! Ignore them! Throw or ignore in post-construction attr changes! Preach the no-semicolon-but-for-components message! WC open up the guts of HTML and DOM. What you do with that power *is up to you*.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and

      And that's the problem. Really don't understand why you're not getting this. But it strikes at the heart of the disconnect between WC and framework camps — frameworks only succeed when the APIs are logical and learnable

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    9. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and

      WC *are just DOM*. This isn't a WC/FW disconnect; it's JS-first (only?) vs. HTML+DOM. Don't want HTML? Don't use it!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and

      I'm clearly not getting through to you. Giving up on this thread

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 24 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and

      No, I hear what you're saying and I'm trying to point out that what you're asking for is something on top of HTML+DOM that restricts the contract. You can have that. But it's an opinion on top of HTML+DOM, not how HTML works. And that opinion is yours to provide.

      3:51 PM - 24 Nov 2019
      • 6 Likes
      • Dzmitry Shymkin Frederik Wessberg Darien MV Caleb Williams Rhy Moore Domenic Figliomeni
      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rhy Moore‏ @morewry 24 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

          I'm not getting how there are obvious or easy ways to improve the design in these respects either. Specifying something like WCs, you're sitting inside the DOM and HTML. You have to work with the grain of how they work. Otherwise, as extensions of HTML and DOM, WCs don't work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 24 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @morewry @slightlylate and

          Rich Harris Retweeted Rich Harris

          https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1198757299394879488 …

          Rich Harris added,

          Rich HarrisVerified account @Rich_Harris
          Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate and 6 others
          Pretty much it. Custom elements were an opportunity to break with the mistakes of the past; instead we doubled down on them
          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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