Here, I just made this for you: https://codesandbox.io/s/priceless-archimedes-4pxxp …. You can do the same thing in basically any non-WC framework, but it's completely impossible with web components
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and
Agree that SVG not being extensible yet is not great! Proprietary, non-interoperable parallel-tree systems have an advantage until it is. How big that advantage is depends on need to vend SVG sub-elements, ofc.
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Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and
As someone who does what I do for a living, I can tell you that it's absolutely essential. Most WC advocacy appears to be around BigCorp Design System Enterprise Edition, so it's easy to see why this critical use case (met by UI frameworks since at least 2013) was overlooked
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and
I don't know who you're arguing against at this point, but the caricature vs. the effort involved in making progress on these issues is doubly exhausting. LMK when you want to put an oar in to help fix.
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Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and
What's exhausting is the suggestion that only those directly contributing to these standards have the right to point out their flaws. If I put an oar in, I'm going to be rowing in a different direction to you, because I think the boat is pointing the wrong way!
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and
You're attributing malign or ignorant motivation -- that we didn't look at SVG extensibility (we did; went for HTML first) -- to a situation far more complex than your characterisation. If you spent this effort lobbying Mozilla and Apple for this, it could get done quickly.
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Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and
WC feature dev slowed after '16 as we waited for Mozilla and MSFT to catch up. Took their sweet, sweet time. Big new proposals moving faster recently, landing apace: intrinsic role, form participation, :part, etc. SVG (and MathML) extensibility need attention now.
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Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and
I'm attributing nothing of the sort — I know perfectly well that everyone here is smart and has good intent, and have never — would never — imply otherwise. But here you are again implying it's somehow my responsibility to convince Apple and Mozilla to prioritise these things,
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @slightlylate and
when I don't need to because I can already do them as long as I avoid WCs! I don't know why it's so hard to say 'these things have some value in the following scenarios, but they currently have some major drawbacks and shouldn't be considered a general solution'.
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @slightlylate and
Instead we get 'eat your greens, jam tomorrow' — just list after list of all the ways in which the specs will *eventually* catch up to userland. It's infuriating. Can you really not see why this sentiment is so widely shared?
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I hear you. I'm frustrated as well, but you're ignoring how WC provide massive interop value for teams *today*. Why?
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Replying to @slightlylate @dmitryshimkin and
Partly because I almost never encounter people (at confs, JS meetups etc) actually using them, partly because I still believe if we'd designed the primitives slightly differently they would have more general utility
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @dmitryshimkin and
If you want to engage on the later, let's discuss (assuming constructive collaboration; nobody treating folks like idiots who don't care about other's concerns, etc.)
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