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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Dave Rupert‏ @davatron5000 8 Nov 2019
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      #AskChrome We learned this week from Firefox that 99% of users don't accept notification requests, yet I'm still hearing "the Web has to compete with Native". How will you ensure the 103 features on the Fugu roadmap don't end up in the same position as Push Notifications?

      10 replies 9 retweets 76 likes
    2. Paul Kinlan‏Verified account @Paul_Kinlan 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @davatron5000

      I'll add this to the agenda for the leadership panel - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeLx2GAturxsSF4GXHOvlYXUJAeO7uDA57XKUdpNqrTN-oFug/viewform?usp=sf_link … - however my understanding from the survey is that 99% is for people being prompted onload, not that 99% don't accept when in context. need to read again though.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Paul_Kinlan @davatron5000

      I think that's the correct understanding. @beverloo or @b1tr0t can confirm. But to the main point, yes, we *must* compete. One way to coud be to ape native app model for push permissions where it's tied to install. Looking forward to seeing Mozilla Desktop PWA support some day.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Paul_Kinlan and

      Anyhow, I do think we gave notification prompts too much rope. A lot of that is down to internal churn on the Chrome team, but I'm excited about some of the experiements happening now. I expect this to get a lot better in short order w/o removing Notifications from the platform.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Kevin Marks‏ @kevinmarks 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Paul_Kinlan and

      While you're thinking about that, have a look at this use case, where a push is used to update a local sw cache without a notification being triggered. Lots of great offline first use cases here, and connection with websub.https://adactio.com/journal/14511 

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @kevinmarks @Paul_Kinlan and

      We thought hard about that case in the design of both SWs and Notifications. If you do a silent update more than once or twice, we eventually show a notification on your behalf to let the user know work happened and allow them to revoke the permission.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @kevinmarks and

      One question we haven't resolved is: if the system app model allows work to happen in the background in this way w/o UI, should the web? We can throttle it, and we can restrict to only happen from networks/IPs users has talked to specific servers from before...haven't built it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Kevin Marks‏ @kevinmarks 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Paul_Kinlan and

      There's a related one there with geolocation and geo fencing - could you have a permission so the sw can get notified by the location api (with the same kind of granularity that latest android has for foreground/background)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @kevinmarks @Paul_Kinlan and

      Great question! We've ended up with a relatively small number of geofencing requests that aren't implicitly spammy -- there was one for unlocking rental cars that was pretty good, but not many others -- and the concern there is silent tracking...

      7:56 AM - 8 Nov 2019
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @kevinmarks and

          We shelved work on geofencing over privacy, but unsatisfying to not have an answer. Took a while to see it from a different perspective, but eventually @beverloo (and I think @owencm) realised we could flip it around. The result is Notification Triggers:https://github.com/beverloo/notification-triggers …

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @kevinmarks and

          Still behind a flag, but my hope is that we'll be able to expand from timed triggers to geolocation triggers at some point soon. Heading to Origin Trial soon, but available behind a flag now.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Kevin Marks‏ @kevinmarks 8 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @Paul_Kinlan and

          The #indieweb concern is building an equivalent to Google maps' location history that isn't in a silo. The stuff Aaron does with Overland and Compasshttps://aaronparecki.com/gps/ 

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @kevinmarks @Paul_Kinlan and

          I think this is a great question we should tackle in Fugu. I'd like to be more privacy preserving than Native here, and so far we've been very conservative. Usage indicators might suffice? IDK.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. End of conversation

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