Thank you! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills! Didn’t we have an entire multi-year SSR craze like 9 years ago and came to the same conclusion? But it’s React now so somehow it’s different?
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Replying to @mikeal
9 years ago is how many bootcamp/accelerator/"full stack" classes?
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Replying to @slightlylate
sure, we‘ve created more developers since then than existed at the time, but still, it’s still in the web community.
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Replying to @mikeal
But we didn't train them. We gave them no community beyond the JS pushers and no norms beyond personal success.
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikeal
Teaching the tricks to render UI sooner should have been nothing but positive, but I worry it set us back by making SSR’s poor time to interactive seem less problematic
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Replying to @scottjehl @mikeal
Agree. We didn't train folks in valuing the user's perspective, so these properties that scale down poorly are simply out of frame. We've created an entire generation of folks who *could* build for everyone, but nobody valued that, and now they're calling the shots.
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Replying to @slightlylate @mikeal
On the up side, frameworks can improve a huge portion of the way sites work now that so many sites rely on their centralized updates. That was something we thought about with jQuery Mobile... if our primary patterns had fault tolerance or a11y built in, a lot of sites would too.
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Replying to @scottjehl @mikeal
I'm in the middle of writing a post about this sort of argument. TL;DR: I call BS. In the small, this can be true, but frameworks seem never to come with enough batteries included our guardrails built into their stacks to drive towards success more often than not.
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Replying to @slightlylate @scottjehl
my issue with frameworks is that they never seem to catch up to upgrades in the platform. they continue to perpetuate the problems they were designed to solve long after the browser includes fixes and functionality that obviates core framework features.
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Replying to @mikeal @scottjehl
They anchor on existing users for predictable reasons. In general, we've only ever tiered up platform usage through replacement. React embeds costs to deal with IE9-11 *to this day*, e.g.
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Cumulatively, this now means that legacy-anchored frameworks & their toolchains are keeping us from winning new business on the world's most common computing platform.
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