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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Mikeal Rogers‏ @mikeal 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate

      Thank you! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills! Didn’t we have an entire multi-year SSR craze like 9 years ago and came to the same conclusion? But it’s React now so somehow it’s different?

      2 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @mikeal

      9 years ago is how many bootcamp/accelerator/"full stack" classes?

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    3. Mikeal Rogers‏ @mikeal 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate

      sure, we‘ve created more developers since then than existed at the time, but still, it’s still in the web community.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @mikeal

      But we didn't train them. We gave them no community beyond the JS pushers and no norms beyond personal success.

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    5. Scott Jehl‏ @scottjehl 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikeal

      Teaching the tricks to render UI sooner should have been nothing but positive, but I worry it set us back by making SSR’s poor time to interactive seem less problematic

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @scottjehl @mikeal

      Agree. We didn't train folks in valuing the user's perspective, so these properties that scale down poorly are simply out of frame. We've created an entire generation of folks who *could* build for everyone, but nobody valued that, and now they're calling the shots.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Scott Jehl‏ @scottjehl 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikeal

      On the up side, frameworks can improve a huge portion of the way sites work now that so many sites rely on their centralized updates. That was something we thought about with jQuery Mobile... if our primary patterns had fault tolerance or a11y built in, a lot of sites would too.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @scottjehl @mikeal

      I'm in the middle of writing a post about this sort of argument. TL;DR: I call BS. In the small, this can be true, but frameworks seem never to come with enough batteries included our guardrails built into their stacks to drive towards success more often than not.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @scottjehl @mikeal

      This isn't to say that the general proposition *can't* be true, only that it's generally not (as judged by the outcomes). The culture and tools needed to steer towards success are, in today's environment, entirely divorced from the decisions teams are asked to make by default.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Scott Jehl‏ @scottjehl 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikeal

      I agree it's generally not happening. The priorities at the top need to drive it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 1 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @scottjehl @mikeal

      Over a long enough timescale and a large enough scope, that's an indictment. Tool vendors aren't being judged by the things that *actually* lead to success, and the community values increasingly irrelevant properties of systems. Religion is a hell of a drug.

      9:09 AM - 1 Nov 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Doug Parker‏ @develwoutacause 1 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @scottjehl @mikeal

          Frameworks are marketed towards developers, not users. Devs like me tend to selfishly favor the developer experience over the end user experience, thus making frameworks compete over DX, not UX. The incentive structure is all wrong and ends poorly for the user.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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