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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Nicole Sullivan‏ @stubbornella 24 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @stubbornella @wycats and

      I'm personally torn. Write components in C++ and it isn't extensible and doesn't layer. Write it in JavaScript and well, lots of things get complicated. Not least of which is that the WC model isn't broadly appreciated. I'm still learning about why (technically).

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 24 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @stubbornella @dfabu and

      Layering is important but @slightlylate was right years ago when he talked about archaeology. You don't have to build the perfect layering for new stuff, just incrementally make it better.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 24 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @wycats @stubbornella and

      One example: web components were mostly *not* an "explain the web" layering, but rather a bunch of new primitives for building new stuff. In my view, a closer "layering" approach would be to start with stuff like custom elements + extending form serialization.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Chris Joel‏ @0xcda7a 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @wycats @stubbornella and

      It's true that <template> and HTML Imports were new concepts, but basically everything else under Web Components explains the web platform. Apparently someone thought it would be nice if we also had a coherent bundling format and fewer tools.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Nicole Sullivan‏ @stubbornella 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @0xcda7a @wycats and

      It’s maybe a question of whose cow paths got paved? Maybe this paved browser cow paths and exposed internals rather than paving ecosystem cow paths? (To be fair the ecosystem was a lot less sophisticated a decade ago)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Chris Joel‏ @0xcda7a 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @stubbornella @wycats and

      An essential agreement of the EWM seemed to be that these cowpaths overlapped more often than not. As implementers explain more of the platform, it was assumed this would free libraries to do the hard API design work while implementers focused on perf.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Chris Joel‏ @0xcda7a 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @0xcda7a @stubbornella and

      Maybe we were a speaking the same language but hearing different messages..

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Chris Joel‏ @0xcda7a 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @0xcda7a @stubbornella and

      OTOH I wouldn't say that Web Components set out to pave implementer-specific cowpaths. Maybe they paved Chrome's (I wasn't there at their inception, so I wouldn't know). But let's not forget that Web Components were met with a fair amount of contention by other implementers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Chris Joel‏ @0xcda7a 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @0xcda7a @stubbornella and

      I think the designers were working in good faith to explain e.g., how <video> has complex internal UI that cannot be directly styled; the life-cycle of DOM elements; how psuedo-selectors work. I believe they did this so that frameworks could also do these things without hacks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    10. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @0xcda7a @stubbornella and

      That's certainly how we aspired to work. We weren't inventing the new so much as doing the archeology of the existing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 25 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @0xcda7a and

      This, BTW, is why reducto absurdum arguments about "but you still need a (tiny) framework, so WC failled!!!!" always cause me to 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ Goal wasn't to replace all framework value. Goal was to enable the sort of seamless interop that DOM has and move FW work/value up the stack.

      9:39 AM - 25 Oct 2019
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      • 22 Likes
      • Kevin Lozandier Milan Raj Gordon Brander Kevin Schaaf Simeon.__proto__ Rhy Moore Adam Bradley Horace Keung Abdón Rodríguez
      1 reply 3 retweets 22 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 25 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @0xcda7a and

          Web Componemts were never about winning a framework battle; they're about allowing FWs to have *different*, better debates at lower local (FW size) and global (interop) cost.

          1 reply 4 retweets 23 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @0xcda7a and

          And yet frameworks weren't really part of the discussion and in general agree that WCs are a poor fit for our interop needs. 🤷‍♂️

          4 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
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