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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Matthew Phillips‏ @matthewcp 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @gregwhitworth and

      There are use-cases that require hard encapsulation. For Salesforce they are saying that the current APIs are not quite hard enough! So jumping in and telling people that their uses-cases aren't valid is a bit like me opening an issue in Svelte saying to use React instead.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @matthewcp @gregwhitworth and

      I'm fairly sure that between us, we could come up with a declarative encapsulation mechanism that wasn't tied to shadow DOM. If such a thing were possible, it would meet Salesforce's use case, along with many others that aren't currently served by the platform

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @matthewcp and

      Unlikely thanks to Spectre/Meltdown. Could imagine something that's <iframe> like + worklets, however, but will break all data flow.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @matthewcp and

      Eh? I don't follow. I'm just talking about CSS!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @matthewcp and

      The model for CSS style application is why SD looks the way it looks. CSS applies via DOM structure. The cascade is a consequence. Encapsulation that doesn't apply via DOM structure can't work w/o major perf implications for all of CSS.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      BTW, I want to explicitly state that we could *absolutely* have missed something. We whiteboarded and prototyped dozens of alternatives over hundreds of hours, but obviously not perfect. If you *can* come up with something that integrates better, let's talk!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @matthewcp and

      You're telling me that, hypothetically, something like <div scope="foo"> 'shadow' DOM <div scope="bar">'light' DOM</div> </div> could never be treated the same way by the browser as this? <my-foo> <my-bar>light DOM</my-bar> </my-foo>

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @matthewcp and

      We built (and shipped, and then unshipped) `<style scoped>` which was ~roughly this: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2012/03/A-New-Experimental-Feature-style-scoped … @tabatkins will likely remember more about why we abandoned, but perf impact was unacceptable IIRC.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9.  💖 Taudry Hepburn  💖‏ @tabatkins 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      There may have been perf implications, I don't recall. My reason for abandoning it was that upper-boundary (prevent styles from escaping) without lower-boundary (prevent styles from infecting) protection ended up of minimal use in practice to our early devs. Mostly a footgun.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
    10.  💖 Taudry Hepburn  💖‏ @tabatkins 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @tabatkins @slightlylate and

      Not to mention, <style scoped> was nearly identical to just putting an ID on the container and using that in your selectors. A lot of implementation complexity for a not-that-useful feature that was easy to emulate by hand.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 9 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @tabatkins @Rich_Harris and

      Ah, yeah, inability to stop cascade downward. Had a niggling feeling that was a contributor.

      1:12 PM - 9 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2.  💖 Taudry Hepburn  💖‏ @tabatkins 9 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

          Fun fact: the big hole @stubbornella has identified is precisely wanting a (limited, safe, composable) way of sending selected styles downward. Solving the problems we meant /deep/ for, but in a much safer way now

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Greg Whitworth‏ @gregwhitworth 9 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @tabatkins @slightlylate and

          Woot @stubbornella

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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