But while we're waiting for a suitable time to make that judgment, there is a real cost to all these proliferating standards (the thing I referred to at the very top of this thread) — particularly if the answer turns out to be 'yep, mistakes were made', and we're left with cruft
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @AdamRackis and
I think the process is working, in its frustratingly slow and imperfect way. There were a bunch of things in the original WC vision (e.g. Model Driven Views + Object.observe, HTML Imports) that died before crossing the finish line, on their merits.
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Replying to @graynorton @Rich_Harris and
Custom Elements and Shadow DOM have some very solid use cases that I think are fairly uncontroversial at this point.
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Replying to @graynorton @Rich_Harris and
What's less clear is whether the current shortcomings of these primitives for more mainstream use cases can be addressed with further spec work.
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Replying to @graynorton @Rich_Harris and
We think they likely can, whereas you're understandably skeptical and concerned. But the process will play out again. If the incremental features aren't good enough, they won't survive.
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Replying to @graynorton @AdamRackis and
Shadow DOM (in its current form) definitely isn't uncontroversial. I maintain a framework that compiles to WC, and the number one WC-related request was 'please add an option to disable SD'. But it's not possible, because content distribution is coupled to styling
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @graynorton and
In the meantime, how many of these new features are going to be presented as a fait accompli, like MDV etc were, only to be yanked away again later? Platform fatigue is real.
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Replying to @Rich_Harris @graynorton and
MDV wasn't s fait-accomplis and anyone who says so is lying to you.
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Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and
I was co-TL of the project (Parkour) that developed it alongside features like ES6 classes, async/await, shorter function syntax, many CSS proposals, etc. etc. MDV was demo'd and the feedback was "that's cool, but you should try to break it up"...so we did
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Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and
As a result, we collaborated widely to design features like Mutation Observers (joint design with Mozilla) and Object.observe() (to get the same semantics for the JS-side of the tree).
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You can just look through the artifacts and timeline to see it wasn't "presented as fait accomplis". Some folks misrepresent what happened at the time; and I guess they're still at it? Sad, but not true.
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Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and
There's something really pernicious here: a contingent of folks keep flogging browser engineers for asking for feedback by saying "you didn't ask for feedback!" I recommend we consider the source in these moments.
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& Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER
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