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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie @slightlylate

      the standards process doesn't really counterbalance that. Contrast it with TC39, which has much broader representation and — though it moves slower than many people would like — generally gets it right first time. I feel way more positive about the direction of JS than of the web

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie

      You're right that the Standards process doesn't counterbalance this *on it's own*, but the Blink API OWNERs apply pressure to Blink launches to ensure we're doing our duty towards standards and (more importantly) developer feedback.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie

      That is, within Chromium, the thing that keeps folks from shipping whatevs is that they have to come through the API OWNERs to get 3 LGTMs to ship. And we're de-facto conservative. But not so conservative that we're happy to idle forever.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie

      It's the API OWNERs that have pushed all these features to request @w3ctag review (other browsers don't have this in their process, so it's a crapshoot if they ask for that wide review for features they lead on). And it's the OWNERS that frequently push teams towards OT.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      Sometimes we get things wrong! But as often as not these days, we just can't get feedback from other vendors in a timely way. It's a direct consequence of them starving their platform teams of staff.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

      But the big question here is this: why are *browser vendors* in charge of web standards, as opposed to a faction within a larger group of stakeholders (a la TC39, though ideally without the same financial commitments) that can advise on implementation pitfalls?

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

      I wrote a blog post series on some of this: https://infrequently.org/2018/06/effective-standards-work-part-1-the-lay-of-the-land/ … https://infrequently.org/2018/06/effective-standards-work-part-2-threading-the-needle/ … TL;DR: feature development and standardisation are separate-but-related processes, and the folks who ship the bits take the risks.

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      What this means, in practice, is that doing good feature development requires collaboration and iteration. And it means being able to effect change in important codebases. So we need to iterate in those codebases when doing feature development.

      2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
    9. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

      currently reading those two posts, but to me this sounds like the tail wagging the dog

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

      Imagine trading places with a browser engineer. A standards body stamps a clearly problematic design with their seal of approval. Neither you nor any of your engine builder peers think it's a good idea. Does it get implemented, particularly when doing so means taking a risk?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

      All good design work -- the stuff that gets to eventual interop and which folks don't hate -- is the result of a collaboration between platform developers and web developers. One party calling the shots never works, and putting standards before design iteration doesn't either.

      5:44 PM - 8 Oct 2019
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        2. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

          I'm sure the browser engineers would hate it, just as companies often hate adhering to regulations and laws dreamt up by governments and lawmakers. The answer in both cases is for the rule-setters to take the advice given by industry seriously, without ceding power to it

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @Rich_Harris @gavindoughtie @w3ctag

          It doesn't seem we're talking about the same things.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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