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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      The "SSR is for performance" folks need to be posting traces from mid/low-end devices/networks to demonstrate that their experiences get consistently interactive fast enough to make the magic trick actually work.

      11 replies 13 retweets 84 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      When I look at traces, it's 99% this:pic.twitter.com/xvtI02l0FH

      6 replies 6 retweets 40 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate

      This is such a poor take. You constantly rail against performance bubble and when one obvious perf technique goes counter to where WC are at, you point to the opposite: “it’s done poorly so don’t do it at all”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @mikesherov

      Hrmmmmmm...I genuinely think that rage-click inducing approaches are bad, and I've seen a huge upswing in this over the past few years...and the assumption is motivated reasoning? I'm only asking for folks who make claims to show data.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate

      Yes, I think it’s motivated reasoning. Have you never seen an SSR application that only uses JS for progressive enhancement be fast? And why is the assumption that it’s a “magic trick” somehow?

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @mikesherov

      The ratios of good/bad (in my experience) suggest that when people bite off a modern, JS-framework-driven architecture + “SSR” (not classic PHP-style “flush to network, then do PE”), things reliably go to hell. It’s not 100%, but it’s close.

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    7. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate

      Isn’t this a critique of how React specifically does this, and not of the technique itself?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @mikesherov

      Nope! I’m seeing this across frameworks. It’s not just React.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 20 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov

      Do I think this *can* be done well? Yes! Specifically, smallish JS payloads or chunked rehydration/PE could do well. But that’s not what I’m asked to analyse (which I absolutely acknowledge is a biased sample, but they’re all big sites).

      6:13 PM - 20 Jun 2019
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      • Dzmitry Shymkin Alexis et alia Rhy Moore вкαя∂εℓℓ
      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Mike Sherov (he/him)  🚀‏ @mikesherov 20 Jun 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate

          And would you say for those big sites, doing a full CSR approach is more performant? Or is it maybe the case that the CSR sites you’re asked to analyze suffer from all the trappings of large teams that make any form of consistent perf hard at the org level?

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Marco Rogers‏ @polotek 20 Jun 2019
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          Replying to @mikesherov @slightlylate

          You tell him Mike. Things aren't bad in the way he says. They're only bad in the way YOU say. High five bro.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 2 more replies
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        2. Dan Fabulich‏ @dfabu 20 Jun 2019
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          Replying to @slightlylate @mikesherov

          I think it would be clearer to object not to “SSR” but to isomorphic JS. You can have an arbitrarily large code size budget on the server (write as much Node JS as you need!) but you shouldn’t just ship all of that to the client. The client bundle has to be teeny tiny.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan Fabulich‏ @dfabu 20 Jun 2019
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          Replying to @dfabu @slightlylate @mikesherov

          I think it’s confusing to object to SSR b/c it makes it sound like you’re opposed to PE. Plus, you can get clear wins converting a giant CSR app with 10s+ FCP and ~0 FID into a SSR rehydration monster with ~2s FCP and ~6s FID. SSR is a Pareto improvement! But it’s not *enough*.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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