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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @ryanflorence

      Because selection bias. Of course sites using Svelte are brilliant: they’re engineered by the elite .1%, like @Rich_Harris. He could do almost as well w/ React if he were so inclined. But yes, obviously the long tail of badly engineered sites are made with popular frameworks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @slightlylate and

      It’s disingenuous bordering on mendacious to keep blaming React for 400K JS loads when React’s 1/12 that size. I’m sure a lot of people would be curious where all that junk is in fact coming from, but so far you haven’t told us. Are multiple copies of lodash sneaking in? D3?

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @slightlylate @ryanflorence

      there's some truth to what you say, even if that part about me is fictional (I routinely struggle with fairly basic FED challenges). But the 'pit of success' is a thing, and not all tools lead you into it

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @slightlylate @ryanflorence

      More seriously, I do acutely see tooling / circumstances that lack a pit of success. Tons of libraries built on CJS that pull the whole damn thing in unless you import things in super secret, bespoke ways. THAT would be a good hill for Alex to fight on. Not the 30K that is React.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      React takes a certain amount (far too much, but not a fatal number) out of your budget. This isn't about "don't use React"; this is "don't use any framework without support and a budget". Was that unclear from the article or traces?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      What’s still unclear about the traces is what all is in the bundles. Like Ryan said, you listed out items that account for only about 1/6th the total 400K. The things you seem angry about don’t seem to be the cause of the problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      The other stuff is the result of the cultural lack of support and infrastructure I've described. Most of the components that are loaded probably should be dynamically imported. But the authors didn't start with a system that encourages that sort of structure.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      Ah so no code splitting? Whole app is shipped up front? The ghost of Browserify still haunts us 😕. I’m lucky to have come from the requireJS side - never touched Browserify, so code splitting’s always been second nature to me.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      "Just be smarter" isn't a solution. Teams need goals/budgets & structure+automation to keep them on the straight-and-narrow. "Learn one weird trick in my 5 week course to fix what you broke with the last one" is demonstrably not working.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      The problem is, if teams don’t know how to use import(), then they’re probably not going to be setting & evaluating perf budgets. I admit me saying “just code split” won’t solve this problem, but neither will you saying “just have perf budgets”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @AdamRackis @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

      I don't say "just have perf budgets". I say "have perf budgets and systems that support you by automating budget conformance and optimal code structure". It's a longer sentence, but it's what I keep typing out in different forms over and over and over and over.

      10:35 PM - 11 Sep 2018
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        1. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 11 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris @ryanflorence

          Didn’t mean to misrepresent you. App frameworks like Sapper are great. React has similar, ie Next. Sadly the people who need them most probably aren’t following you on Twitter, to get this msg. I don’t know what the solution is, but railing against web frameworks prolly isn’t it

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        2. Justin Meyer‏ @justinbmeyer 12 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @AdamRackis and

          What do you mean by “optimal code structure”?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 12 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @justinbmeyer @slightlylate and

          Think he means things like code splitting being built in, and automatic. Thing is, app wrappers like Sapper and Preact-cli exist for React, too, ie Next.js. But nobody can force these devs to use it.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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