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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @AdamRackis

      You can't style it as a placeholder in the general case. Not unless you know exactly what is in the shadow DOM and how it will layout (taking account of fonts etc...). The best you can do is an approximation

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Paul Lewis‏ @aerotwist 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @slightlylate @AdamRackis

      This is a really important consideration. You need to plan the pre-upgraded and upgraded states of elements, Shadow DOM or no. It's a little dicey to rely on global styles while you wait on CE upgrades as you are essentially in a non-SD world. Spinners everywhere? I dunno.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @aerotwist @slightlylate @AdamRackis

      It's why I'm not using or recommending custom elements!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      This is pretty backwards. You can always plan on an always-upgraded CE world: you just build with CE the exact same way as you do regular JS-driven UI. Define, then use.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      The choice is between SSR with no pop-in upon hydration, with no polyfills required (and encapsulated styles via tooling), or SSR with pop-in upon upgrade and a requirement to polyfill. It's no wonder that even those of us who are pro-platform choose the former

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      Again, that's backwards. You inline your component definitions such that they evaluate before use; voila, no upgrade!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      Surely that means introducing render-blocking JavaScript, and a broken page if the JS fails for whatever reason? For sites that don't expect the user to interact immediately beyond scrolling (e.g. news sites), that feels like a step backwards to me

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      This whole conversation is surreal to me. You can do any of: a.) SSR in a WC-aware way (Rendertron) and then you're doing what JS-driven UI does today b.) inline critical components the way we inline CSS c.) design placeholder CSS for components

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      You could. But I don't want to spend my time setting up Rendertron, and I don't want to spend my time designing placeholder CSS, and since I don't need to (because of UI frameworks) I'm not going to! *That's* the bar — it has to be as easy or easier than the tools people use

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    10. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @slightlylate and

      Again, this is coming from someone who definitely *doesn't* consider themselves part of the JS industrial complex — I want to align with the platform to the greatest extent possible. But right now, CEs and SD only create problems for me, they don't solve them

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 11 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @Rich_Harris @aerotwist @AdamRackis

      I hear what you're saying. I look forward to your support the next time we try to get inline Shadow DOM done.

      10:59 AM - 11 Sep 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Harris‏Verified account @Rich_Harris 11 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @aerotwist @AdamRackis

          And you will have it! As long as I know where to chime in, you can count on it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. вкαя∂εℓℓ‏ @briankardell 11 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @Rich_Harris and

          A declarative shadow would be super interesting! it's very hard for me to imagine in a really good way tho.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Amelia Bellamy-Royds‏ @AmeliasBrain 11 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @briankardell @slightlylate and

          One way is to do something like SVG <use>, except with template & slot for customizable copies, & custom tagnames: <template for="my-widget"> <link rel="stylesheet" href="widget.css" /> <slot …> <button> <etc> </template> …later: <my-widget> <data …> </my-widget>

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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