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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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      I think in retrospect we’ll find async/await added little to the actual organization of async code. Ultimately, it’s just a “cleaner” way of adding arbitrary branch points that can’t be reasoned about in any wholistic way (which should be the primary goal of async constructs).

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    2. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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      We misinterpreted the problem to be “how can we do asynchronous things with less curly braces”, when the real problem should have been “how can I guarantee only x things are ever happening at once” or “globally, only 3 file descriptors are ever simultaneously open”.

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    3. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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      There’s no way to control throughput, or establish pipelining, or to even have a good idea about what things are happening at once. The measure of new code constructs should be how easy they make it to reason about the state of your program *without* the addition of new dev tools

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    4. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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      That’s why, ironically enough, IMO the main benefit of async/await in node was to make *sequential* programming reasonable again - you can now write a sequence of linear steps for a CLI in node as simply as... had they all been sync calls, with a performance hit of course.

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      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 21 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @tolmasky

      Our primary challenge is/was UI responsiveness in a cooperatively multitasking system. Async/await weren't designed to solve any resource-ownership problems; they were designed to make it more attractive to yield.

      10:07 AM - 21 Aug 2018
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        2. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate

          It’s not really resource ownership I’m referring to necessarily, but rather analogous to the “just throw it on a thread” thinking in other languages. Ultimately making yield feel “free” leads to performance (and sometimes logic) errors, and dodges the true problems in async code.

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        3. Francisco Tolmasky‏ @tolmasky 21 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @tolmasky @slightlylate

          Node came out, and the myth that single threaded non-blocking code was a cure-all for responsiveness, w/the only caveat being “the pyramid of hell”, which async/await has now saved us from. We can trace so many perf issues to refusing to reason about the async state machine.

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