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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Jake Archibald‏ @jaffathecake 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @jyasskin @slightlylate and

      It's there a summary of why it's universally bad? We might need it for some kind of bytestorage API. Something mmap-like.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @jaffathecake @jyasskin and

      Much of WebCrypto has no business being asynchronous. Promises and friends make sense for IO-bound operations, while crypto is CPU-bound. Most of it is also quite fast, to the point that the promise machinery costs more than the operation itself.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @jaffathecake and

      If it's CPU-bound and slow, that probably also justifies promises + worker pool (RSA keygen definitely, maybe some other asymmetric operations), but the symmetric ops should have been synchronous.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @jaffathecake and

      I/O+bound isn't different to CPU-bound when responsiveness is at risk. Environments without threading rely on tasks deferring for responsiveness.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @jaffathecake and

      Which is why I mentioned symmetric vs asymmetric operations. Computing a hash is not a responsiveness risk. We're talking operations where we look at avoiding malloc because it's on the radar at this scale.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Jeffrey Yasskin‏ @jyasskin 28 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @slightlylate and

      … the TAG should probably give some guidance about when a CPU-bound operation takes long enough to make it promise-based. e.g. Hashes and AES handle 1MB in about 1ms, which is probably fine to block the main thread, but we also just added img.decode() because images take longer.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Elliott Sprehn‏ @ElliottZ 29 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @jyasskin @davidben__ and

      Also 1ms is somewhere between 2% and 10% of your main thread budget in a lot of situations... Getting non UI work off the main thread is critical to fixing a lot of mess in apps (native and web).

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 29 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @ElliottZ @jyasskin and

      Developers already can iterate over a giant array and do slow stuff. Nothing will avoid the need to think about jank. All we can do is forbid the really bad things while still making the things you need possible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 29 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @ElliottZ and

      For network requests, this is clear. An RTT is an RTT. Crypto scales with data, and you often need to make lots of small calls. Look at the key schedule of any protocol. Adding async points between each 32-byte hash op costs perf and complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 29 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @ElliottZ and

      If *really* worried about confused devs, sync + must be in web worker is a plausible start. Then you run your entire protocol on the thread. The important thing is to get the promises out of all the little intermediate steps.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @davidben__ @ElliottZ and

      I'd like to see numbers. Promises were explicitly designed to allow for "fast forwarding" so that you don't need a full turn around the event loop. Might not be enough, but data matters.

      8:52 AM - 29 Jul 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. David Benjamin‏ @davidben__ 29 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @ElliottZ and

          (Am tied up packing for a big move but it sounded like others had numbers.) "Fast" depends on context. Overhead for an IO-bound event loop iteration is different from overhead for a small chunk of compute in it. We wouldn't push array lookups or object allocations into a promise.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Elliott Sprehn‏ @ElliottZ 29 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @davidben__ @slightlylate and

          I'd love to see data though. It's possible the APIs need a batch interface so you can hash multiple strings in one call if the per call overhead vs. computation cost is too high. Sync is not the only way to fix this.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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