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slightlylate's profile
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
Alex Russell
@slightlylate

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Alex Russell

@slightlylate

Chrome Project 🐡 & Web Standards TL; Blink API OWNER Named PWAs w/ @phae; probably making her ☕ DMs open. Tweets my own; press@google.com for official comms.

San Francisco, The Internet
infrequently.org
Joined December 2010

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    1. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

      Problem with webComponents is lack of server side rendering

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

      https://github.com/GoogleChrome/rendertron …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

      Is this good enough performance for a production website? It seems to be aimed at bots, I'm rendering server side for humans

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

      If you're alluding to this broke "SSR" pattern, don't do that. Just ship less JS.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

      I don't know what the broke SSR pattern is. I want to render server side to have fast initial paint an then apply js as quick as possible and lazily. Server side rendering doesn't necessarily mean js

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

      Don't do that. What I see in traces is slow initial paints from lack of flushing and too much late-loaded JS, delaying TTI and delivering effectively broken experiences. You've been sold a bill of goods.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

      I think we are talking about different things. Do you have an article or something about these traces and what causes slow paints?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

      Paint is the wrong metric. Rendered but unusable content is...well, unusable. The metric to optimise for is Time-to-Interactive (which, for RUM, is FID). See:https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/05/first-input-delay …

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

      Oh yes, completely agree, but human reaction time is rather slow, so we have a grace period of ~100ms after paint before having to make something interactive. So render first, make interactive right after, focus on both TTFP and TTI.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @slightlylate and

      BTW, I would love to see some statistics on how quickly on average after an element is rendered it is interacted with. I suspect (at least for our website) that it's much more than 100ms

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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      Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

      Lets do it this way: do you have a SSR'd site that you think is a good experience? If so, we can run that through WPT and see how it really works in the real world. I see script loading (interactivity) frequently delayed by *seconds* compared to content.

      8:19 AM - 29 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 29 May 2018
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          Replying to @slightlylate @brianleroux and

          Haha, no, I don't have a real, useful website that you would think is good 😄

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 29 May 2018
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          Replying to @GundersenMarius @brianleroux and

          I think that sort of gets you an answer ;-)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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