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signalapp's profile
Signal
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@signalapp

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@signalapp

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    Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013

    A method for achieving forward secrecy in asynchronous messaging environments:https://whispersystems.org/blog/asynchronous-security/ …

    10:36 AM - 22 Aug 2013
    • 37 Retweets
    • 45 Likes
    • KRIEGSPIEL ζ(s) Moustache cryptocow Dmitri Kharlamov Bryan Ford Brian Smith Jared Brees Idiocracy2 ripsnorter
    8 replies 37 retweets 45 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. GNU/Justin‏ @justinsteven 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems I'd research it myself but I'm afk, can you protect against a DoS through exhaustion of a client's prekeys?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @justinsteven

        @justinsteven Yes, you rate limit on the server, and there's a "last resort" key that can be reused but rotates periodically.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. GNU/Justin‏ @justinsteven 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems so is the rate limit global for the client, what if I control 100 "senders"? I'll look into the last resort key. Thanks!

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @justinsteven

        @justinsteven Yep, with 100 verified numbers you can exhaust keys if the owner is offline. Doesn't disrupt communication though.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. GNU/Justin‏ @justinsteven 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems because you can fall onto the last resort key? Are there crypto weaknesses in reusing this key, or do you only lose pfs?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @justinsteven

        @justinsteven You only lose pfs for the first message transmitted. Keys ratchet forward for subsequent messages.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. GNU/Justin‏ @justinsteven 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems unless the client stays offline and you're gunning messages at them, right?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @justinsteven

        @justinsteven That's correct, no pfs until you get a response. Although the last resort key is rotated periodically as well.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Adam Caudill‏Verified account @adamcaudill 2 Sep 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems @moxie Is the protocol documented (in more detail) anywhere? Would like to dig into it in more detail.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Signal‏ @signalapp 3 Sep 2013
        Replying to @adamcaudill

        @adamcaudill That blog post is discussion next generation changes that are in the making. Current generation is:https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/wiki/Protocol …

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2.  ☣Adam‏ @AdamOfDc949 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems @moxie Could one launch a Denial of Service by exhausting "the server" of pre-keys? #CryptoNoob

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @AdamOfDc949

        @AdamOfDc949 Yes, you have to rate limit on the server, and there's a "last resort" key that can be reused but rotates periodically.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jon‏ @technicalmoses 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems what if the list of prekey's is silently compromised?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @technicalmoses

        @technicalmoses They are signed with the owners identity key.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Jon‏ @technicalmoses 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems And if an attacker has that, all bets off anyways. Sounds cool. Crypto is fun.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems @moxie Cool. You can also do this more efficiently with tree-based systems.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Signal‏ @signalapp 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @matthew_d_green

        @matthew_d_green Tell us more...

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems Well, I was thinking of this http://www.cs.umd.edu/~jkatz/papers/forward-enc-full.pdf … but it turns out to require some stronger crypto... So scratch that.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. wolverine‏ @Wolverineks 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems what is meant by 'the server'?

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Jeremy (bneg)‏ @beyondnegative 22 Aug 2013
        Replying to @signalapp

        @whispersystems @moxie if phone is lost, how to revoke/regen pre-keys? Sounds like a great idea Btw. Simple crypto is badly needed.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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