Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️

@dhh @bdruth @pragdave Who has demanded that TDD is required as the driver of design? Tests are one among many such drivers.

@unclebobmartin @bdruth @pragdave Maybe all we need is a TDD 2.0 :). Focus on the eradication of fear, enable confident changes. Less design

@dhh @unclebobmartin I've always felt that self-testing code is the most valuable outcome of TDD. I often find design aspect useful too.

@martinfowler @unclebobmartin Main contortions I see in the Rails world are around trying to isolate controller tests and prevent DB access.

@dhh @martinfowler @unclebobmartin Do you think the issue there is just trying to isolate library code? Never stub code you don't own

@sgrif @martinfowler @unclebobmartin It's funny, I do the OPPOSITE. Only mock/stub code I don't control.

@dhh @martinfowler @unclebobmartin Interesting. Could you elaborate? Are you referring to third party services?

@sgrif @martinfowler @unclebobmartin Third-party services, standard lib (like Date), and other gems.