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sgrif's profile
Miss Dada 🏳️‍⚧️
Miss Dada 🏳️‍⚧️
Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️
@sgrif

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Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️

@sgrif

Co lead of the http://crates.io  team. Creator of @dieselframework. Former host of @_bikeshed and @_yakshave. Former Rails comitter. Enby. they/them

Albuquerque, NM
patreon.com/seantheprogram…
Joined November 2008

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    1. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth @sgrif

      yes, we could implement stuff here to make it better, but "does b or *(n)b have a method foo" is different from "does b or &*(n)b work as T in PartialEq<T> for str".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️‏ @sgrif 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth

      https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=be5ff1a4c279c3f05e1d4607391623ec … is a more concrete explanation of what I mean. `Self` is special cased in more than just dot form

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @sgrif

      I don't understand how that's special casing self types? Deref coercions give up pretty easily, that's the root of this. Here it's giving up on the UFCS form only, with the autoderef working: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=c0197afb83c273b0f4181ddef6fd0cf6 …

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️‏ @sgrif 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth

      Probably the biggest way that self is getting special cased here is that it won't try to deref self but it will try to deref other arguments (why is `PartialEq<Inner> for Outer` fine there but not `PartialEq<Outer> for Inner`?)

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    5. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @sgrif

      but your example is already asymmetric, it's breaking because `y` is MyRc, not because it's not self. It fails if you swap y with x, it has nothing to do with the receiver being special cased

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    6. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth @sgrif

      What's happening is that for x it's managing to find a single impl that doesn't require coercion. it's done! it's able to coerce for y because there's a single impl, so all the expected types are known

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️‏ @sgrif 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth

      Right, which is my point. It's willing to try coercing y, it's not willing to try coercing x. It's a special case for `Self`. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's arbitrary

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @sgrif

      I think my issue is with the term "special case" here, because the underlying reason here is that trait search fundamentally works off of self, and this isn't the only way that manifests. this isn't specific to deref coercions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️‏ @sgrif 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth

      Sure, but what is self other than the first argument? re-rebalancing coherence was literally about changing the trait system to stop treating self as different, and instead just treating it as the leftmost argument, and applying the same rules left to right

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @sgrif

      self isn't always the first argument, though It's not for foo<T: Trait<U>, U>(x: bool, y: T, z: U), and you'll have similar problems here the UFCS call is basically eq<T: PartialEq<U>, U>(&T, &U)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Miss Dada  🏳️‍⚧️‏ @sgrif 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth

      Right, which is why I wouldn't want to treat `self` as special at all, rules for dispatching both are the same. Fewest derefs left to right. (don't deref T, try derefing U repeatedly, if you find an impl stop, deref T once, ...)

      2:52 PM - 25 Nov 2019
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      • Francois Garillot
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        2. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @sgrif

          "left to right" assumes that there's a function here *at all*, though

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        3. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 25 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @ManishEarth @sgrif

          i guess you can special case for deref coercions that are happening in function call arguments only

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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