As IRC problems go this isn't too major, but it means that retroactive moderation isn't effective, and you need to have a much larger and more present mod team.
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Replying to @ManishEarth @nokusu and
(the reason it's a broken windows problem is that this stuff sticks around and then people start metadiscussing it, making it worse)
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Replying to @ManishEarth @tshepang_dev and
That’s the same with any platform. Any client side deletion only works because the client agrees to act on the server side deletions.
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Replying to @nokusu @tshepang_dev and
Which is much easier when there's largely a single client that everyone uses (or a couple of clients that all do this) I'm not asking for technically perfect deletion, that's impossible. I'm asking for the vast majority of people to have a decent experience.
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Replying to @ManishEarth @nokusu and
I want everyone to have a decent experience too! Super important! I also feel communication is so important we shouldn't give up on open standards and flock to a "winning" proprietary platform. It feels contrary to Mozilla's mission to improve the web for all.
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Replying to @seanmonstar @nokusu and
I don't think Mozilla has given up on that. Neither Slack nor Discord satisfy the constraints posed, iirc. I'm just skeptical that IRC or even IRCv3 can be "fixed" here
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Replying to @ManishEarth @nokusu and
But if it can, great, right? It seems important to try. And few other companies are in a position to do so.
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Replying to @seanmonstar @nokusu and
But why not pick Matrix or one of the newer ideas? What's so great about IRC that we should try and stick with it? IRC isn't the only open protocol on the block
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Replying to @ManishEarth @nokusu and
I'm not tied to IRC. It just seems to me like the easiest to fix, as opposed to getting clients to support a whole different protocol. I just want an excellent open protocol, with user choice of clients.
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Replying to @seanmonstar @nokusu and
Matrix has a bunch of clients already. IRC has design decisions baked in that are hard to change. Message persistence is an example of that
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Putting a team behind Matrix dev may be fine too. I haven't explored it. The name of protocol isn't important to me. Announcing the closure of a platform using open standards without declaring that some other open platform was the goal is the concern.
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Replying to @seanmonstar @nokusu and
I don't think the platform being open is a goal. There are some open platforms that I think might satisfy the requirements, though.
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Replying to @ManishEarth @nokusu and
It not being a goal is the reason for my concern. That should be a goal. At least, it should be a goal of a mission for a free and open web.
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