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sbelak's profile
Simon Belak
Simon Belak
Simon Belak
@sbelak

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Simon Belak

@sbelak

Philosopher-hacker. Sometimes theatre director. Making myself obsolete at @Metabase

Joined February 2009

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    1. Nikita‏ @nikitonsky Jul 4

      This is Clojure 1.9 telling me through spec that I missed something minor in my let form (it was a typo). So no, error messages have not improved. Full res at https://s.tonsky.me/share/spec_stacktrace.png …pic.twitter.com/Rpo8ObgvqB

      17 replies 34 retweets 101 likes
    2. stuarthalloway‏ @stuarthalloway Jul 5
      Replying to @nikitonsky

      Clojure 1.9 REPL elides stacktraces -- why are you seeing them

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Timothy Baldridge‏ @timbaldridge Jul 5
      Replying to @stuarthalloway @nikitonsky

      The problem here is that the errors are useless to humans unless you either A) have memorized the spec or B) download a 3rd party library. That's pretty much the textbook definition of user-hostile. At this point it's easier to debug C++ template errors than stock Clojure errors.

      1 reply 4 retweets 21 likes
    4. stuarthalloway‏ @stuarthalloway Jul 5
      Replying to @timbaldridge @nikitonsky

      Having excellent names for the spec components would help to address both A and B. It would be fantastic to have an audit of a #Clojure macro specs suggesting better names to see the limit of what is possible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Timothy Baldridge‏ @timbaldridge Jul 5
      Replying to @stuarthalloway @nikitonsky

      Naming isn't the problem here, it's information overload and interpretation. Spec's errors are a memory dump of a parser, there has to be a interpretation of that data for users, unless you expect users to mentally evaluate that parser in their head.

      2 replies 2 retweets 20 likes
      Simon Belak‏ @sbelak Jul 5
      Replying to @timbaldridge @stuarthalloway @nikitonsky

      A huge help would be if there was some notion of best match, rather than just dumping all the options. cc @ericnormand

      7:07 AM - 5 Jul 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Eric Normand‏ @ericnormand Jul 5
          Replying to @sbelak @timbaldridge and

          I don't think any automated solution will give good error messages always. Good error messages will need to be bespoke to each situation.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Simon Belak‏ @sbelak Jul 5
          Replying to @ericnormand @timbaldridge and

          For sure. But a good guess + interactive drill in/expansion would go a long way.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Eric Normand‏ @ericnormand Jul 5
          Replying to @sbelak @timbaldridge and

          Yeah. My first pass on that would be to get rid of the second part of the printout (the one showing information about the entire path). The lines showing the problem are very informative.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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