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sarahmei's profile
Sarah Mei
Sarah Mei
Sarah Mei
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@sarahmei

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Sarah MeiVerified account

@sarahmei

Software engineer & founder of @RailsBridge and @LivableCode. Currently stirring the pot at @SalesforceUX. She/her. ✨Twitter at the speed of parenting✨

San Francisco, CA
sarahmei.com
Joined March 2008

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    Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei Sep 14
    • Report Tweet

    Sarah Mei Retweeted Liz Fong-Jones (方禮真)

    The more I think about this, the more important it seems. JUSTICE, not FREEDOM, is what I want from software. Freedom could be a means, but is not the end.https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/1172926347603259392 …

    Sarah Mei added,

    Liz Fong-Jones (方禮真)Verified account @lizthegrey
    No, because "freedom" isn't the right goal in and of itself, justice is. How does "Free" software to help ICE, perform drone strikes, assist in ethnic cleansing, etc. make the world free, never mind just? https://twitter.com/maybekatz/status/1172630847544950784 …
    Show this thread
    11:43 AM - 14 Sep 2019
    • 51 Retweets
    • 177 Likes
    • Tim Humphries Keith Hoodlet Joyce Park Kurt "Fights Computers" Mosiejczuk Ruby Sinreich Justin true believer! Claire Agutter Phillip Carter, Esq.
    13 replies 51 retweets 177 likes
      1. Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei Sep 14
        • Report Tweet

        As an aside, I like the title “Software Justice Foundation”... but isn’t there a word for foundation that starts with W?? That would be PERFECT 🤔

        18 replies 1 retweet 50 likes
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      2. e. hashman‏ @ehashdn Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei @lizthegrey

        software freedom is necessary but not sufficient to assure user autonomy and consent; to see it as an ends of its own or a moral issue in isolation IMO misses the bigger picture

        2 replies 4 retweets 11 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. pulkomandy‏ @pulkomandy Sep 14
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        Replying to @sarahmei

        By focusing only on freedom you end up with "software is just a tool", "guns don't kill people", etc. There's a reason the French motto is "Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité" (I'm not sure how to exactly translate it, sorry). Already in 1790 they knew freedom alone wouldn't work

        1 reply 4 retweets 6 likes
      3. Alexandre Pretto‏ @alexandrepretto Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @pulkomandy @sarahmei

        "Liberty, equality, fraternity"

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. pulkomandy‏ @pulkomandy Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @alexandrepretto @sarahmei

        Or maybe "freedom, fairness, friendship". I fear some subtleties will be lost in translation whatever I try

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. pulkomandy‏ @pulkomandy Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @pulkomandy @alexandrepretto @sarahmei

        So let's be more wordy about it. Not going to expand on freedom, we already know the upsides and downsides all too well, but let's see how the two others work to balance it

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Ben Ramsey‏ @ramsey Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        In practical terms, does this mean I apply a license to my software that not only grants freedom but also specifies certain ways my software can’t be used to harm others?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Eleanor McHugh‏ @feyeleanor Sep 14
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        Replying to @ramsey @sarahmei

        The jsmin license specifies that software covered by it can’t be used for evil. What constitutes evil is an open question. There’s no reason why evil couldn’t be replaced with particular activities or purposes. Whether or not that would deliver Justice is dependant on viewpoint.

        4 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Robert Hafner‏ @tedivm Sep 14
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        Replying to @feyeleanor @ramsey @sarahmei

        The "Do No Evil" license causes problems though because there's no legal definition, and people don't self apply the term evil all that often. The ambiguity makes it a really bad license. I'm not bashing the idea though, just this implementation.

        0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Jonathan Turner‏ @jntrnr Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        The Just Software Foundation it is

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Sohom Bhattacharjee‏ @sohom83 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        Exactly, also "freedom" does NOT absolve you of the responsibilities that comes with it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Rachel Ober  🏳️‍🌈 💜‏ @rachelober Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        I’d like to see how a license can be rewritten to embody those ideals. I think it’s easy to quantify “free” software and I am wondering how “justice” would be defined because it is in the eye of the beholder.

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      2. Platinum Blond Beldam  🌹 🌹 🛡️ 🛡️‏ @peced Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        I'm on board iff proprietary software is ineligible to be considered just software. If this is one of those "liking open source makes you a bad person" things that are so fashionable, no thanks.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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      2. Pete Jarvis‏ @TechnoPhobe01 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @sarahmei

        My sense is recommend reading the "Federalist Papers". "Justice is the end of government. It is the end of civil society. It ever has been and ever will be pursued until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit. "The Federalist Papers," No. 51

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Pete Jarvis‏ @TechnoPhobe01 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @TechnoPhobe01 @sarahmei

        Justice is an interesting term. My sense is "Justice" is often in the eye of the beholder. etymology: mid-12c., "the exercise of authority in vindication of right by assigning reward or punishment;" Good karma flying your way. :-)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Pete Jarvis‏ @TechnoPhobe01 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @TechnoPhobe01 @sarahmei

        Freedom meanwhile can, and is often applied to justify actions. Thus, the freedom to act must be tempered in a civil society. Why? Justice and Freedom are complex topics, as is society's application of the terms. A Recommended Book "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Pete Jarvis‏ @TechnoPhobe01 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @TechnoPhobe01 @sarahmei

        My sense is that one has to apply moral imperatives to the application of software to navigate the complexities of societal norms not rules. One has to defend as well push for change. Society requires structure to thrive. Morality evolves whilst laws tend to be fixed in place.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Pete Jarvis‏ @TechnoPhobe01 Sep 14
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @TechnoPhobe01 @sarahmei

        Thus, the danger today is the erosion of moral imperatives. What is "right" and "wong". How does one create evil and inhumanity? Make immoral actions mundane. Thus, the imperative is focus upon "Injustice" not "Justice". Subtle. https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html …

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation

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