SJ Longthorne

Linear games where player agency can't change the story in turn can't create meaningful guilt or regret in players, because they won't take responsibility for scripted or progression-dependent actions. So, at worst, it can only misalign the player and character

What's so impressive about the end of TLOU is that it had a HUGE amount of players rooting for Joel, despite the objective immorality of his actions. I would argue that is a success of immersion and alignment. TLOU2 taps into this alignment early on, then tries to smash it

However I think TLOU2 underestimates that success of its first game, and the 7 years thereafter that fans had to distill and ferment their loyalty to the characters they associate the IP with, which is why many will reach the end without every changing their core allegiance

There are some other flaws in the theme too: number 1 being: is 2020 really the time for a "both sides" story? and number 2, outside the two warring camps, every other group appears to be deeply unsympathetic gimmicky crazies

The most spoilery thing I'll say is: the final narrative choice of TLOU2 should have been a player choice. If the entire game is a thesis, an argument to change the players mind. The ending should have been a test: a question, not an answer. Let the player touch the catharsis

I agree with most of what you've (very elegantly) expressed here -- and this is subjective -- but I liked having to do it. Well, I liked not liking it, if that makes sense. TLOU2 for me was about watching people I liked ruin themselves over hatred (cont)

To be clear (because I don't think I conveyed this well), I liked not having a choice about it, specifically. I think it would have undermined the intention. The game doesn't want me to BE Ellie or Abbie, and it doesn't want either of them to be me, either.

Which is what would have happened if I'd had a choice in the matter. They would have been me again, and I wouldn't have experienced the ending that was most fitting to the themes, the message, the story they wanted to tell.