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sarahkliff's profile
Sarah Kliff
Sarah Kliff
Sarah Kliff
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@sarahkliff

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Sarah KliffVerified account

@sarahkliff

Senior Policy Correspondent @voxdotcom. Running a year-long project on emergency room billing. Help out by sharing your bill!

Washington, DC
erbills.vox.com
Joined January 2009

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    Sarah Kliff‏Verified account @sarahkliff Feb 19

    This chart from Denmark speaks volumes about why nearly every developed country still has a double-digit gender wage gap. https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/gender-wage-gap-childcare-penalty …pic.twitter.com/BSpQaXkDKk

    8:14 AM - 19 Feb 2018
    • 100 Retweets
    • 179 Likes
    • Joe Kent Vote November 6th Rich Swinton David, of Oregon Meredith Cooke Pobody’s Nerfect Third Summers BOOther🍕🎃 Ed Joanna
    18 replies 100 retweets 179 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Tomonori Ishikawa‏ @IshDataSci Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        What would have been great is a chart comparing men vs women without children. But unless I'm missing something here, the study seems to lack that key comparison.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. John Appleby‏ @jappleby123 Feb 19
        Replying to @IshDataSci @sarahkliff

        Agree, but this highlights men with kids vs women with kids; ‘kids’ being the key.... a reflection of societal and employment/employer factors in gender pay gap

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Tomonori Ishikawa‏ @IshDataSci Feb 19
        Replying to @jappleby123 @sarahkliff

        But once the authors construct the counter-factuals, controlling for bearing children, comparing men (kids or not doesn't make a diff) vs women who did not bear children will highlight gender biases NOT attributable to child bearing. Could have answered this question as well.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. John Appleby‏ @jappleby123 Feb 19
        Replying to @IshDataSci @sarahkliff

        Yep, but in danger of controlling away factors which we may think important/want to do something about (depending on views of inter gender fairness wrt pay)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. John Appleby‏ @jappleby123 Feb 19
        Replying to @jappleby123 @IshDataSci @sarahkliff

        It’s a question of what sort of society we want (to which economists do not have an answer!... but they can point out the consequences, one of which, wrt having kids, is that women bear a cost wrt their future earnings)

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jon Abrams‏ @JonathanAbrams Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff @ezraklein

        What’s the Y-Axis? It’s not %, since the article mentions a 20% hit?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. John Appleby‏ @jappleby123 Feb 19
        Replying to @JonathanAbrams @sarahkliff @ezraklein

        Think it is, but badly labelled

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Tom Clarke‏ @tomeclarke Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        I think it would really improve the conversation if we dropped the gender gap framing. Calling it a childcare penalty would have similar emotional weight, but focus the attention better.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Zb‏ @yemble Feb 19
        Replying to @tomeclarke @sarahkliff

        Thing is this study also showed virtually zero men took time off for childcare. It's a catch-22: the gender gap (various reasons) means men earn more, and the higher earner tends to remain employed to maximize household income, perpetuating the discrepancy.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Tom Clarke‏ @tomeclarke Feb 19
        Replying to @yemble @sarahkliff

        There’s some super interesting confounding variables there. For example, if women tended to have older partners (which is the case) you could get that effect without any bias at all.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Tom Clarke‏ @tomeclarke Feb 19
        Replying to @tomeclarke @yemble @sarahkliff

        Based on @sarahkliff’s articles (this and the Claudia Goldin based one), my sense is that the opportunity here is chipping away at the penalty. If that’s the case, then focussing our attention on it could be really productive.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Tom Clarke‏ @tomeclarke Feb 19
        Replying to @tomeclarke @yemble @sarahkliff

        So for example, in my company we (for other reasons) really tried hard to disincentivize working an extended work week. I can’t prove it, but my suspicion is that this will lead us in this local case to have a much more limited childcare penalty.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Tom Clarke‏ @tomeclarke Feb 19
        Replying to @tomeclarke @yemble @sarahkliff

        If my framing is gender pay gap, I can dismiss that sort of issue with: well, the people who work more get better compensation. They happen to be men, but what can I do about that? If the framing is childcare penalty, I might see more options.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      8. End of conversation
      1.  📽 Expect Us  🥀‏ @DemocraticWhore Feb 20
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        It's also self-fulfilling. When there's a pay gap and parents have to decide who should keep the job and who takes care of the baby, the one making the most money keeps their job.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Eye 'n Stain‏ @MerryMust Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff @bauscaus

        Not my intention to be provocative. Just trying to assess the matter. If babies are not considered GDP and "building" them is not a Country's investment, and work is paid by hours rather than by something else, was someone promoting this study expecting different final findings?

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Starlnat‏ @starling_nathan Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        @MacMcCannTX Most woman i know go back part time after children. Surely this has been factored in, otherwise just misleading.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Josh King‏ @joshuamking Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        Question-begging to call this a "penalty." Denies agency to those who choose to stay home or work less.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Academic Resistance‏ @AcademicResist Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff @voxdotcom

        Nothing structural here. Move along.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. New conversation
      2. Truly S. Resists  📎‏ @hotincleveland Feb 19
        Replying to @sarahkliff

        It's no use. This is just going to attract a raft of mansplainers saying this is only fair because the women took time off to raise their kids, which is their true role in life. And women saying the same, and that they believe it's a woman's true role in life. So, no foul. *sigh*

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. The Illuminati‏ @Illuminati0ffic Feb 19
        Replying to @hotincleveland @sarahkliff

        Or maybe this is because women often choose to take time off to raise children, and that doesn't make them bad feminists or victims of the patriarchy.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Judi Golden‏ @gorkt Feb 19
        Replying to @Illuminati0ffic @hotincleveland @sarahkliff

        Or maybe it’s because society rewards women socially for being SAHMs and penalizes men for being SAHDs.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Truly S. Resists  📎‏ @hotincleveland Feb 20
        Replying to @gorkt @Illuminati0ffic @sarahkliff

        Bingo.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation

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