Google: If you took the Java implementation from Sun, you'd have to get a license from that, yes? Schmidt: Absolutely.
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Google: Did you work with Eric Schmidt? Schwartz: Yes, he was my first boss.
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Google: When you were CEO of Sun, was the Java programming language free and available to use? Schwartz: Yes. Since its inception.
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Promoted Java across the country, because the more people used Java, the more business opportunities Sun had.
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Schwartz is asked if he was familiar with Java APIs at the time he was CEO. Schwartz begins by trying to explain what APIs. Oracle objects
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Schwartz isn't an expert, so he has to frame his answer as "The way I'd explain APIs *then*..."
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Alsup: "I don't know what the witness just said. The thing about the breakfast menu makes no sense."
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The problem with this case is that pretty much everyone this case actually affects knows what an API is, but it's all up to people who don't
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Also, yeah, the Schwartz breakfast menu analogy made *no* sense.
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Google: Were the Java APIs sold or licensed separately from the language? Schwartz: No.
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Google: Can you explain what an implementation is? Schwartz: Can I go back to my breakfast menu analogy?
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Google: *wearily* Well that didn't work with the judge but go ahead
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Schwartz explains that two restaurants can both say they serve hamburgers but the actual hamburgers themselves are different
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The actual hamburgers are the implementations.
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Can't tell what the jury is thinking.
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G: During your tenure at Sun, was there ever a time the Java APIs were considered proprietary to some? Schwartz: No, never.
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Google: What was the practice at Sun during your tenure with respect to third parties who used the APIs with their own implementations?
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Schwartz: We couldn’t stop it. It was fair. They weren’t asking us to put our logo on it, or bless it. [Sun made money licensing Java TM]
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Schwartz says that that's what happened with Apache Harmony. Apache Harmony used APIs, wanted to use the logo to indicate Java-compatible
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Sun refused because Harmony wouldn't pay them the fees, but did not object to use of APIs.
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Schwartz keeps coming close to saying APIs aren't copyrightable and additional jury instruction had to be givenhttps://twitter.com/xor/status/730428645513269248 …
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Alsup: Give us 30 second on GNU. Schwartz: There... was a very smart man...
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Alsup interrupts as Schwartz tries to explain who RMS is.
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Schwartz explains GNU stands for. "GNU is not Unix." Alsup: The G part stands for GNU? Schwartz: Yes. Alsup: That doesn't many any sense
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Now Schwartz is explaining free software and keeps getting carried away, Alsup keeps stopping him telling him not to make a speech
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Google: Was GNU also using Java APIs? Schwartz: Yes.
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Google: What was GNU doing with the Java APIs? Schwartz: They were creating a free, open source version of Java.
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Google not being allowed to ask *why* Sun did not interfere with these implementations, because they can't state legal conclusions.
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But it's, like, kind of the point. People at the time did not treat the APIs as copyrightable.
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Schwartz: I was annoyed, but it was completely consistent with our practices. It was competitive with what we were doing.
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