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sapinker's profile
Steven Pinker
Steven Pinker
Steven Pinker
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@sapinker

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Steven PinkerVerified account

@sapinker

Cognitive scientist at Harvard.

Boston, MA
pinker.wjh.harvard.edu
Joined January 2010

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    Steven Pinker‏Verified account @sapinker May 12

    But with a telltale slip: Sam Harris did not “defend” Charles Murray’s work on race but invited him to discuss all his work. Discussing isn’t defending - that is the fallacy that imperils free speech.https://nyti.ms/2G6N4S7 

    2:20 PM - 12 May 2018
    • 432 Retweets
    • 1,965 Likes
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    139 replies 432 retweets 1,965 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @sapinker

        But Harris was defending Murray's work. He says "The purpose of the podcast was to set the record straight. Because I find the dishonesty and hypocrisy and moral cowardice of Murray's critics shocking." I agree discussing != defending in general, but isn't that clearly a defense?

        29 replies 13 retweets 293 likes
      3. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @juliagalef @sapinker

        More quotes from Harris' intro: "What I found when I began reading Murray’s work was a deeply rational and careful scholar who is quite obviously motivated by an ethical concern about inequality in our society. This is not a person who was in favor of discrimination."

        4 replies 3 retweets 127 likes
      4. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @juliagalef @sapinker

        "People... certainly don’t want to hear that average IQ differs across races and ethnic groups. Now, for better or worse, these are all facts. There is almost nothing in psychological science for which there is more evidence than these claims."

        3 replies 3 retweets 102 likes
      5. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @juliagalef @sapinker

        "So it is with real pleasure and some trepidation that I bring you a very controversial conversation on points about which there is virtually no scientific controversy" ... I really don't see how it's unfair to say that Harris was defending Murray's work on race

        5 replies 4 retweets 149 likes
      6. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @juliagalef @sapinker

        Note I'm not taking a position here about whether Harris is right, or whether he should've done the show, or anything. Just disputing the claim that Harris was merely discussing, not defending, Murray's work.

        18 replies 3 retweets 135 likes
      7. Tweet unavailable
      8. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef May 12
        Replying to @KishavanBhola @sapinker

        I agree that's the more controversial part, and I don't have a quote handy from Harris about that -- but my memory is that he defends Murray's take (some of the gap is probably innate, some environmental) as a reasonable one

        11 replies 0 retweets 40 likes
      9. Saloni  🎃‏ @salonium May 12
        Replying to @juliagalef @KishavanBhola @sapinker

        Yes he says so in the Vox interview https://www.vox.com/2018/4/9/17210248/sam-harris-ezra-klein-charles-murray-transcript-podcast …pic.twitter.com/eqxoRMJwnl

        3 replies 1 retweet 44 likes
      10. 6 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. AttackPilotTrader‏ @NCBenWilliams May 12
        Replying to @sapinker @instapundit

        Also Charles Murray’s work is based in fact. So if you don’t like it you can go argue the facts not just dismiss simple facts as racist.

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      3.  🎃 💀 👻Anne Boo-raden 👻 💀 🎃‏ @Br3wn May 12
        Replying to @NCBenWilliams @sapinker @instapundit

        What studies have shown the genetic heritability of IQ based on race as a genetic construct? Please link to these facts

        2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      4. Gregorio Naçu‏ @gregnacu May 12
        Replying to @Br3wn @NCBenWilliams and

        I’m failing to understand this question. Who doesn’t think that IQ is heritable? Smart parents generally have smart kids. Virtually every heritable trait has a different average between racial groups. I.e. Some racial groups are taller than others, on avg.

        3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      5. Gregorio Naçu‏ @gregnacu May 12
        Replying to @gregnacu @Br3wn and

        What are the chances that if other heritable traits vary on average, that, miraculously, only intelligence is exactly identical across all groups. This is politically motivated wishful thinking. We need to confront uncomfortable facts & build society to be robust despite them.

        1 reply 1 retweet 15 likes
      6.  🎃 💀 👻Anne Boo-raden 👻 💀 🎃‏ @Br3wn May 12
        Replying to @gregnacu @NCBenWilliams and

        Which genes determine race as you're putting it?

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      7. Gregorio Naçu‏ @gregnacu May 12
        Replying to @Br3wn @NCBenWilliams and

        How would I know? I don’t know the names of any genes. But, it can’t be a coincidence that slender tall black people make good marathon runners. I don’t know what genes give them those traits, but surely they’re heritable, and better at running than other gene constellations.

        1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
      8.  🎃 💀 👻Anne Boo-raden 👻 💀 🎃‏ @Br3wn May 12
        Replying to @gregnacu @NCBenWilliams and

        Those slender tall people, why are they black? What does it mean to be black genetically? There is more genetic diversity in Africa than in the rest of the world combined. So why are all these different kinds of people all "black"?

        2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      9. Gregorio Naçu‏ @gregnacu May 12
        Replying to @Br3wn @NCBenWilliams and

        But I guess you’re asking, what is a race? And are they purely a social construct. I would think they’re a fuzzy imperfect construct, but not just socially constructed. A race is like a big family. And families tend to develop identifiable traits and statistical features.

        3 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      10. 5 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Nicole McNeil‏ @NicoleMMcNeil May 12
        Replying to @sapinker

        But “discussing” does mean pushing back when opinions are stated as facts. So when Murray says things like “group diffs suggest genetic roots,” or “evidence points toward a genetic factor in cognitive ethnic diffs,” it was Sam’s obligation to push back. 1/3

        4 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
      3. Nicole McNeil‏ @NicoleMMcNeil May 12
        Replying to @NicoleMMcNeil @sapinker

        Instead, he stated multiple times (esp in discussion w/ Ezra) that Murray’s science is “objective data” and “scientific fact.” He also let Murray state as fact that fade out effects indicate that a person’s environment can’t really change IQ. 2/3

        3 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
      4. Nicole McNeil‏ @NicoleMMcNeil May 12
        Replying to @NicoleMMcNeil @sapinker

        I think Sam provides a valuable perspective on many issues, and I agree w/ letting controversial speakers speak, but he was spreading misinformation about the science here. As a fellow scientist and lover of intellectual political discourse, I was disappointed. 3/3

        1 reply 2 retweets 18 likes
      5. 1 more reply

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