This is cherry picking data to say the least. In the USA, there is no correlation between high renewables penetrations and high prices. None. Take a look at TX, SD, Iowa, OK, ND, Kansas with huge wind penetrations of up to 30% or more and below average power prices.
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Every single one of those states except for TX, fracking central, saw electricity prices rise significantly
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I just wish the reporter spent more than 10% of the article addressing the cause. And, more effective storage would smooth out the volatility issues - which seem to me like a moderate influence on the real causes of the increasing costs.
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The whole article is about the causes. And I did address storage — it's part of what makes electricity in solar and wind-heavy places.
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I address storage as one of the causes
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It is an inherent, physical problem that cannot be solve without increasing the cost of electricity. Think about it.
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You may want your favorite engineer to explain the difference between power and energy. And of course - the implications to electricity production....
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It's implicit here, but I agree, too many people — including journalists — mix the two up.
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The unreliable nature of most renewables and high storage costs mean that renewables can at most be 10-15% of the grid. Any number above this requires detailed analysis and means increased electricity costs
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
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Great explanation by
@ShellenbergerMD of why media doesn't report why wind and solar cost so much.pic.twitter.com/K8aMti58EC
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Yet he is heavily relying upon the Hirth study that states in its conclusion: " A more thorough evaluation of specific flexibility options is warranted, including a richer set of storage technologies..." And storage tech is progressing:http://rameznaam.com/2015/10/14/how-cheap-can-energy-storage-get/ …
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@ShellenbergerMD CA long ago decided to invest in EE to control power bills. Bills not rates. The combination of high EE expenditures, high energy efficiency standards, and weather mean CA residential power bills are well below national average. See: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/sales_revenue_price/pdf/table5_a.pdf … -
Actually, it's mostly from our moderate climate and lack of heavy industry and only 20% from efficiency policies: https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:qt715mj7086/thesis_final-augmented.pdf …
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So true and so lost on anyone who looks at “average” costs and usage. Marginal rates in California are incredibly high. Mr Hanger may think that that making a useful product like electricity very expensive is “efficient” but it may be more accurate to call it economic suicide
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Where to start? Power prices should include carbon costs. I am glad CA has started to internalize those costs. Other states/countries should do so. Nukes and renewables should not have to compete against coal/gas generation that uses atmosphere as free dump.
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@duncan__c Always possible that I am wrong about many things and love to learn. BUT not on this one...You ignore states like Kentucky, WVA with little solar/wind but big price increases. All the states I cited have cheap to average rate power plus big wind/solar. Cheap & clean.pic.twitter.com/ELJIjszlR2
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@duncan__c So we have ND, SD, KS, OK, TX with large amounts of wind & solar and electricity prices at or below average. A good result for climate and consumers. We have TX and Nevada with actually declining rates and large amounts of wind and solar. -
3. As to Hawaii, HI gets most of its power from burning oil. 2009 was a year when oil prices cratered to about $30/barrel. Prices for oil have about doubled since 2009. You blame solar for a 22% increase in power prices in HI since 2009. How about oil? HI inflation rate? Wow!
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