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sapinker's profile
Steven Pinker
Steven Pinker
Steven Pinker
Verified account
@sapinker

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Steven PinkerVerified account

@sapinker

Cognitive scientist at Harvard.

Boston, MA
pinker.wjh.harvard.edu
Joined January 2010

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    Steven Pinker‏Verified account @sapinker 25 Dec 2017

    Fallacy 2: "Reason can't get me to love my wife." That's a preference (desire), not a proposition (belief), so neither faith nor reason is relevant.https://nyti.ms/2prBjm9 

    4:39 PM - 25 Dec 2017
    • 89 Retweets
    • 389 Likes
    • S.C.B. Jim Palmer Quicksplit Habiba Ramadan Daniel Carrasco Matt White Rishi Dagar Christianne Smith la[rniea]nni
    16 replies 89 retweets 389 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Mel Konner‏ @TangledWing 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker

        What if faith is like love? What logic is there in loving one person so much more than all the others?

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Marcus Orr‏ @MarkieOrr 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @TangledWing @sapinker

        THANK YOU! That's exactly the point the article was making.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Haywood‏ @jablomih 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @MarkieOrr @TangledWing @sapinker

        But the point is invalid. You can't use love to determine if the person you "love" exists. Faith is a bit like love in that sense: both are useless at determining the truth of a proposition.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      5. Marcus Orr‏ @MarkieOrr 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @jablomih @TangledWing @sapinker

        Exactly - and yet you still probably believe that people you love do exist. And we can have "Faith" in our hope of making the world better even if we can't prove that hope valid by reason alone. That's the kind of faith the article discussed.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. Haywood‏ @jablomih 26 Dec 2017
        Replying to @MarkieOrr @TangledWing @sapinker

        You ignored what I wrote. I do beleive the people I love exist, but I had physical evidence that they existed before I loved them. Does this sound rational to you? "I've never seen your wife; is she real?" "She can't be seen/heard/felt, but I feel her love inside."

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. Marcus Orr‏ @MarkieOrr 26 Dec 2017
        Replying to @jablomih @TangledWing @sapinker

        You said that love in itself doesn't prove existence? Love is usually given wrt to a person, faith is wrt morals, life, the universe, etc. Neither prove existence, they're each only meaningful given the things we have experienced (people, life).

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Siddharth Srinivasan‏ @ssiddharth 26 Dec 2017
        Replying to @MarkieOrr @jablomih and

        In the wise words of @timminchin, "love without evidence is stalking". Point is, religious faith is belief in the absence of evidence. It's inconsistent with the evidence based scientific reality of how the universe functions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      9. Haywood‏ @jablomih 26 Dec 2017
        Replying to @ssiddharth @MarkieOrr and

        Right, and more than that, religious faith (belief without evidence) is a demonstrably unreliable method of determining what is true.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      10. End of conversation
      1. Kellie Wick  ☮️‏ @KellieRoseWick 27 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker @alex_kovaleski

        I have faith that the chair I am sitting on will not break underneath me, causing injury. There are various degrees of faith, believe it or not. Reason-Faith is cut into facets, dimensions. 🐦

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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      1. Kellie Wick  ☮️‏ @KellieRoseWick 27 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker @alex_kovaleski

        Reason, can teach one to love in general with the same mind of intensity that it can create one to become a nazi. Smiles. 🐦

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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      1. Shane Caldwell‏ @ChiGuyNumber3 26 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker

        Love is so much more than preference or desire.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. David Pinsen‏ @dpinsen 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker

        "Reason can't get me to love diversity"

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Badder than Satan, Drunker than God‏ @GeorgeHemingto1 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @sapinker

        Love can be propositional. Here's an example of love as a proposition: "My wife is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen". Reason (probably) won't get you there.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Bosco‏ @literlcatperson 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @GeorgeHemingto1 @sapinker

        Your opinions of beauty are a preference, though...

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Badder than Satan, Drunker than God‏ @GeorgeHemingto1 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @literlcatperson @sapinker

        No. You have a preference for beauty, and a preference for a certain person (your wife), but the proposition "My wife is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen" is a proposition, an expression of belief: "I believe that my wife is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen".

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Bosco‏ @literlcatperson 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @GeorgeHemingto1 @sapinker

        Yeah, but it is a proposition about a preference. The degree to which you find your wife beautiful is a preference. Beauty is subjective.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Badder than Satan, Drunker than God‏ @GeorgeHemingto1 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @literlcatperson @sapinker

        That's still a belief. It doesn't have to be objective. In fact that's sort of the point: Pinker claims that love is all about preference, with neither reason nor faith being involved. But expressing the proposition "my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world" is a belief.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Bosco‏ @literlcatperson 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @GeorgeHemingto1 @sapinker

        But that belief is not love. That’s a belief that stems from your love. Pinker’s claim is about love. It seems you’re moving the goalposts.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Badder than Satan, Drunker than God‏ @GeorgeHemingto1 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @literlcatperson @sapinker

        That's a more reasonable objection, but it's question-begging. Love, qua preference, is deeply involved in the proposition, but the proposition is also involved in love. Believing that my wife is the most beautiful person in the world may be a big part of being in love with her.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Badder than Satan, Drunker than God‏ @GeorgeHemingto1 25 Dec 2017
        Replying to @GeorgeHemingto1 @literlcatperson @sapinker

        That renders this re-statement that "love is just a preference" question-begging, because I've not been given any independent reason to believe that it's just a preference.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 7 more replies

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