y/n? 1. The LessWrong/etc. account of symbols/concepts/reality doesn’t say where the concepts/ontology come from. 2. Where the concepts/ontology come from is the only hard or interesting part. [...] N. Therefore, the LW account is not just wrong but completely wrong and also bad.
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Replying to @meditationstuff @JakeOrthwein and
Yep basically agree with 1 and 2 - figuring out axes for your clusterspace is the hard part. Dunno about completely wrong but certainly very limited if it has little to say about the hard part!
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Replying to @drossbucket @JakeOrthwein and
Ok. And/but it seems that people are having at least the experience of getting tremendous *epistemological*-feeling *usefulness* out of being exposed to the map/territory distinction, and I think we need an explanation for that? Seems more than any-port-in-storm or sociological.
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Replying to @meditationstuff @drossbucket and
huh, I don't remember finding *any* of the LW sequences useful new conceptual info when I first read them. I got HUGE personal growth out of meeting the community but that was because it was my first experience with counterculture.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
if you take a smart person, age 20, and then try introducing her to people who say "hm, have you tried...loosening up and being more confident? try it, it's fun, we're doing it and we haven't been struck by any lightning bolts yet!" the results are pretty dramatic.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
(I'm skeptical of the project "introduce fanfic readers to memes about Thinking and Saving The World" but super bullish on "introduce STEM nerds to each other and to hippie culture or SF-fandom culture")
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
(in particular, "take people who have already demonstrated they can Do Hard Things and get them to hang out together and stop anxiously limiting themselves" is feasible & powerful, while "make ordinary people into competent people" is still an unsolved problem)
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
I think there was an original goal of "get otherwise smart/competent people who have a mental block around AI such that they make absurd claims, to think more clearly around that issue" but I think that attempt was based on a misunderstanding of human psychology
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
smart people don't make obviously incoherent claims about AI because they lack a good enough theory of how thinking works.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
my best guess as to why CS professors say obviously absurd things about AI is that it's basically marketing for where they want to stand in the zeitgeist and they aren't *actually reflecting about how AI would work in real life* at all.
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and my best guess for "how to get people to think literally instead of performatively about an issue" is that it's going to look more like therapy than education.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
afaik, "how can you get people to use less motivated cognition?" and "how can you get people to be more sincere?" are both totally unanswered questions & no progress has been made on them.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @meditationstuff and
But "how can I get myself to use less motivated cognition / be more sincere" has a ton of answers and progress? Or do you mean including people who are already interested in doing that?
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