[people who may be interested in this thread or have cool thoughts: @jessi_cata @s_r_constantin ]
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Honestly the vulnerability makes sense to me. There are a lot of things that are dangerous to do with an adversary but helpful to do with an ally — like reveal things about yourself.
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Replying to @s_r_constantin @reasonisfun and
If you never do anything with your friends that you couldn’t do with an enemy, your friendships aren’t very deep.
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I don't think that is vulnerability though. That's knowing some well enough that you're not vulnerable even when you reveal things that would bite you if you revealed to an enemy. It's similarly not vulnerable to hang out with a gym rat friend. They're not gonna hurt you.
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Ah, I think there’s no real disagreement then, only semantics. Most people who praise vulnerability are in favor of doing things that *look superficially* like they could be dangerous, and might scare you, rather than things that are actually dangerous.
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idk man there's a like 'cult of vulnerability' that's popular at the moment. Pro-feelings people say vulnerability is good and encourage taking risks and doing things like crying in front of strangers. Normal folk too, but lesser degree. Pro risking being hurt some to get love.
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Yeah, that stuff is really confused. Engineered vulnerability is not genuine vulnerability, and even verges on manipulative. Won’t leave anyone happy
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I mean manipulation works great. You can totally set things up strategically to generate a sense of closeness, and it works.
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Depends on the context, personalities involved, goals, etc. I was thinking moreso about forming a healthy, long-term intimate relationship, where this kind of manipulation is (generally) less wise. Short term, in less serious situations, yes, this can of course be effective.
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Replying to @DM_Berger @s_r_constantin and
The effectiveness of such manipulation also tends often to hinge on that engineered vulnerability being perceived as genuine and spontaneous. If manipulation is suspected, it can backfire (usually as resentment). This kind of manipulation feels borderline and unhealthy to me.
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Eh, I don’t see it as that bad, the people who are transparently manipulating but are convinced it’s genuine are the ones who get tiresome after a while.
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A lot of it just comes down to extent. I'm thinking e.g. therapist self-disclosure. It is always a bit fundamentally manipulative, but, done right, can be helpful in building trust and the relationship. Done poorly, it can be destructive.
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