The teacher makes fun of Kim again, and then calls on Lindsey. Lindsey gets good grades, and she has read the book. Lindsey liked On the Road. https://www.planetclaire.tv/quotes/freaksandgeeks/season-one/the-diary/ … But she wants to be friends with Kim, so she “steelmans” Kim’s commentary. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thingofthings.wordpress.com/2016/08/09/against-steelmanning/amp/ …
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Divia Eden Retweeted Divia Eden
That’s the scene. It relates to the current nonsense about prices, and the current nonsense about everything else. To recap: -Kim didn’t read the book -Kim complains about the book -Lindsey read the book and liked it but wants to be friends with Kim -Lindsey “steelmans” Kimhttps://twitter.com/diviacaroline/status/1245069267923382273 …
Divia Eden added,
Divia Eden @diviacarolineI claim there’s a thing upstream from economic illiteracy that makes it so these disputes are very unliekly to be resolved by laying out valid arguments. And IME it’s the largely same reason people routinely un-self-awarely have destructive arguments. https://twitter.com/diviacaroline/status/1245067801561194501?s=21 … https://twitter.com/diviacaroline/status/1245067801561194501 …Show this thread2 replies 0 retweets 9 likesShow this thread -
So, prices. People are not born understanding prices. Some people then learn how prices work. Learning how prices work isn’t memorizing some facts. It’s more like a click. Quite like, “so the concept of 'magic' isn't even consistent, then!"https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/R3ATEWWmBhMhbY2AL/that-magical-click …
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Divia Eden Retweeted Divia Eden
Also, the world is sad and unfair. https://twitter.com/diviacaroline/status/1244772647881211904?s=21 … Like Lindsey, I also think it’s wrong for there to be a teacher who is bullying Kim for not having done the assignment. So Lindsey introduces a critique of On the Road that is not her real position, and not Kim’s.https://twitter.com/diviacaroline/status/1244772647881211904 …
Divia Eden added,
Divia Eden @diviacarolineI was on a drug-focused grand jury in NYC for a month around 12 years ago. Lots of ~18yos dealing crack to undercover cops under security cameras found with less than $50, all in one dollar bills. The whole thing is so sad and awful. https://twitter.com/EmilyYoffe/status/1244744855584223234 …1 reply 0 retweets 7 likesShow this thread -
An economist might even say that because people intuitively want justice, and can tell something bad is happening (and also it’s cooler to be a freak than a geek), there is now demand for this half-fake critique. Creating “discourse” out of this stuff alienates us from cruxes.
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Skin in the game can help, but it’s not that simple. Politicians can get covid too. They already have! So do their family members! So either skin in the game isn’t enough, or “you and your loved ones could die” isn’t truly skin in the game.
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The situation with complicated topics is that people who doesn’t understand what’s going on (most people) ally with people who have sometimes honest and often half-fake critiques of the position most people who did read the book have. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleggers_and_Baptists …
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I’ll be more clear. I think almost all politicians missed the “click” that any ancap has experienced regarding prices. The ancap stuff is also an oversimplified model. Intelligent critiques of ancap exist. Politicians aren’t making them. See also: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ATMWK3O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_rG7GEbXJAPEFB …
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And to muddy the waters again, they aren’t 0/10 making the intelligent critique...they are 2/10 making it. Because you can miss object-level reality while still being really perceptive about modeling social gradients and the values of the people making arguments.
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Replying to @diviacaroline
so your point is "steelmanning is kind of pointless; the people who disagree with you don't actually hold the steelman view, they hold a much dumber and more naive view, and you're not even really being kind to them by ascribing views they don't hold"?
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like "it's pointless to argue about the academic/theoretical versions of political opinions, because ~nobody holds them, they hold simpler and dumber positions; people hold dumb positions because of real concerns plus misunderstandings/ignorance/internal limits"
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Replying to @s_r_constantin
I think it can be fun and you can maybe find your people by doing it. And maybe you. Sn even fund a think tank and influence policy on the margin or whatever. But today I’m more interested in the thing that prevents people from understanding the basic argument.
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Replying to @diviacaroline
like, what is *actually* going on with people who don't get prices?
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