Pressure on an ICU ventilator is measured in units of *tenths of a cm H20* -- that's THOUSANDTHS of psi. Those "DIY ventilator" projects that are basically a bag, a pump, and a mask? They're probably not this precise. (No calibration measurements listed, at any rate.)
-
Show this thread
-
If you want to
#buildventilators to help with the COVID19 crisis you're going to have to match the specs on the kind of ventilators used for long-term care of patients with ARDS. Bag ventilators are for emergency first aid and temporary breathing support.3 replies 2 retweets 18 likesShow this thread -
Here's a doctor demonstrating how you use an ambu bag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1goz1l28kUQ … Obviously, the pressure isn't precise here, since he's just squeezing the bag by hand. But I think (?) that's just erring on the side of too little pressure because you're going to escalate anyway.
1 reply 1 retweet 4 likesShow this thread -
Replying to @s_r_constantin
So isn't a less than perfect machine to replace him helpful in a world where there are no commercial ventilators?
2 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @joshmh
this is a confused question. Replacing the guy pumping the bag with a motor pumping the bag = nice, esp. if it keeps his arm from getting tired when help is slow to come. But it doesn't at *all* replace the "real ventilator" that requires intubation, that's a different machine.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @s_r_constantin @joshmh
In a world where you don't have a "real" ventilator, then what happens when non-invasive bag pumping isn't enough to get the patient's blood oxygen back up? The bag predictably *isn't enough* for a lot of severe cases. Automating the pumping won't fix that.
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @s_r_constantin
The patients die until the hackers that figured out how to do the first stage level up to a second stage.
2 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @joshmh
Here's an example of an open source ventilator project that *is* aiming at that second stage: https://panvent.blogspot.com/2020/03/specifications-for-pandemic-ventilator.html …
1 reply 2 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @s_r_constantin @joshmh
I guess that another problem is that hospitals could never use such DIY devices. They do not meet the specs and the needed testing to be approved, so if an hospital starts using DIY devices all the patients could theoretically sue them I guess, which is a huge risk...
3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @fabgenovese @joshmh
In a sufficiently severe pandemic doctors might well make tradeoffs to save lives. The flip side is that those tradeoffs have to actually make sense from a patient benefit perspective.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
Open-source ventilator that *actually matches the necessary specs and is the right machine* but isn't FDA/EMA approved: maybe if things get bad enough it'll see use. Open-source device that is *THE WRONG MACHINE ALTOGETHER*: you mean well but you're not gonna save any lives.
-
-
Replying to @s_r_constantin @fabgenovese
A machine that saves a life saves a life, a machine that doesn't doesn't. Let's get a lot of projects out there in case some of them help some people. According to the only study I've seen, commercial ventilators didn't help anybody with covid19 either. They all eventually died.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
“They all eventually died” is there a reference? It would make a lot of efforts pointless.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes - 19 more replies
New conversation -
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.