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s_r_constantin's profile
Sarah Constantin
Sarah Constantin
Sarah Constantin
@s_r_constantin

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Sarah Constantin

@s_r_constantin

Math/ML/data-science person now working on solving aging...and helping with COVID19?! Founder, LRI and Daphnia Labs. Married to @oscredwin

Be
srconstantin.posthaven.com
Joined February 2019

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    1. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
      • Report Tweet
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      Sarah Constantin Retweeted Arthur Brrrrr  🌮

      Yeah, this. I don't always agree with *who* gets canceled and *why*, but the alternative -- "don't voice disapproval or voluntarily disassociate when you believe something to be unethical" -- is a lot worse.https://twitter.com/ArthurB/status/1204469207825616896 …

      Sarah Constantin added,

      Arthur Brrrrr  🌮 @ArthurB
      Biting that bullet. A misused tool is still a tool and it would be one we'd have to contend with regardless of libertarian advocacy. Besides, reliance on these non-coercive means may mean less reliance on political means, and that's still progress even when use is misguided. https://twitter.com/Ethan_Heilman/status/1204394763677515776 …
      Show this thread
      4 replies 4 retweets 20 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that voicing disapproval and not associating with people we disapprove of is healthy and often necessary. "Canceling" goes beyond that: it amounts to enforcing a general ban on approval of and association with a person, and is not sustainable in a pluralist society.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @s_r_constantin

      For example, imagine a physicist has supported an initiative against gay marriage, and my values dictate that I won't be friends with that physicist. Is society better off if I also get that physicist fired, and he is now working as a Uber driver or becomes homeless?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I would consider that a calibration issue -- does opposing gay marriage really require being fired from an unrelated academic position? is it that severe, or that relevant, an offense that this consequence is good to seek?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      There *are* actions that I think would be worth firing someone over, such as violent crimes. I don't think opposing gay marriage is worth firing someone over. But I don't disagree with the principle "there exist situations when you should try to get someone fired."

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that the process of cutting someone off from economic or cultural integration into society needs to be based on a legal process, because it has enormous consequences and costs, not just for the individual, but for society itself. Cancel culture sidesteps that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Maybe. But *a* legal process need not be *our* legal system. (I've been thinking for a while that adjudication-as-a-private-service might be useful for situations like these.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      What do you have in mind? Should there be a network of competing private legal systems, and the subscription of your employer determines which particular political ideas get you fired this year?

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I’m not sure. What you’re proposing doesn’t sound ideal, I admit.

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      Let me put it this way: the US criminal justice system is such a shitshow that most people hesitate to use it, out of justified concern that it will both ignore real crimes and use totally disproportionate force and cruelty against the accused.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      The "court of public opinion" is epistemically terrible compared to a real trial; but most accusations of crimes never go to trial! If you include the whole process of seeking legal justice, starting with "call the police", I'm not sure it's more fair or humane than "canceling."

      2:02 PM - 10 Dec 2019
      • 1 Like
      • ian hines
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

          I agree that a private adjudication service that *charges a fee* would probably be biased towards corporations, since they'd be the most reliable big customers. Maybe they need to be free and donation-supported. Or randomize who they charge. I don't know exactly.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @s_r_constantin

          It is not as if the US legal system is the only one there is. For instance, you can make lawyers work for flat fees, limit damages to avoid bankruptcies, introduce more common sense discretion into judgement of the lower courts, etc.

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @s_r_constantin

          Canceling does not offer presumption of innocence, appeals process, commensurability, restitution, ex post facto, habeas corpus, accountability of the court, correction etc. The US legal system may be bad but not that bad.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz

          Most of these don’t apply in practice; people are routinely jailed for over a year without trial. The court system doesn’t have the staff to give most people a trial at all. The real penalty isn’t the sentence, but the bail, jail time, and plea deal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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