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ronanfitz22's profile
Ronan
Ronan
Ronan
@ronanfitz22

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Ronan

@ronanfitz22

Millenarian centrist. Irrationalist.

Ireland
Joined July 2012

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    1. Dan Davies‏ @dsquareddigest May 2
      Replying to @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      I'm interested in articles about understanding jihadis and Nazis because there's something there that I don't understand and want to. But sexually frustrated young men? Thanks but I don't need the guidebook to that one.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Jesse Singal‏Verified account @jessesingal May 2
      Replying to @dsquareddigest @HeerJeet

      I think all those groups involve sexually frustrated young men!

      2 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
    3. Jeet Heer‏Verified account @HeerJeet May 2
      Replying to @jessesingal @dsquareddigest

      I do think there is a shared pattern of social alienation, troubled personal life, & online radicalization. Less sure about how to reach any of these guys.

      3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    4. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
      Replying to @HeerJeet @jessesingal @dsquareddigest

      Progressives routinely distinguish btwn hardened terrorists trying to kill ppl & addressing the general causes of social alienation that create a fertile pool for radicalization. I don't see why we can't do that here (w/o foisting the problem on sex workers or other women).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan Davies‏ @dsquareddigest May 2
      Replying to @IanRGillespie @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      but there's nothing to understand here. There isn't a religious/nationalist or political/racist agenda; they don't have any larger project, they're just people who are angry and violent and having a subreddit doesn't make them a movement.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
      Replying to @dsquareddigest @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      I think they are a political movement (an often dangerous one). MRAs, Redpill & MGTOW certainly are. But why does that matter? My point is, if social change causes large-scale alienation (leading some to misogyny or even violence) shdn't we address it (w/o reversing the change)?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Dan Davies‏ @dsquareddigest May 2
      Replying to @IanRGillespie @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      they're not a political movement and the proof is that there is no cause; they don't support each other and each one would sell out the rest the moment they got a hint of a girlfriend. They're just tomorrow's domestic abusers and their alienation isn't caused by any change.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
      Replying to @dsquareddigest @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      You're not citing facts or examples for your arguments, so it's hard to discuss any of this productively, but: Incels oppose feminism. Redpills want changes to divorce laws/oppose pay equity policies. MRAs have an *extensive* policy agenda. These are all political causes.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan Davies‏ @dsquareddigest May 2
      Replying to @IanRGillespie @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      You can't have a political movement where the defining belief is "I wish I was not in this movement". There's no cause; it's pure selfishness. It's not at all something like jihadism or Nazism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
      Replying to @dsquareddigest @HeerJeet @jessesingal

      Again, the impt shared characteristic in this thread isn't dependent on these groups being a movement. That said, you certainly can have a political movement whose defining belief is "I wish I was not in this group." Union organizing & anti-poverty movements are both examples.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Ronan‏ @ronanfitz22 May 2
      Replying to @IanRGillespie @dsquareddigest and

      The similarity is prob at individual level characteristics.The incel is(imo)prob more like the lone wolf jihadist,who r more likely to suffer mental health issues,isolation, &carry out those types of attacks.The average incel is not like the more ideologically/grp driven militant

      4:18 PM - 2 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
          Replying to @ronanfitz22

          I think that's all fair. But I don't think the differences change the fact that some of these are genuine problems that likely effect a much larger group of men than the already radicalized/abusive/violent (and that cld be addressed w/o rolling back progress for other groups).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ronan‏ @ronanfitz22 May 2
          Replying to @IanRGillespie

          It's a reality probably without a solution beyond containment of the violence, and hoping social policies resolve some of the other issues. But There is no solution to a lot of problems, violence often burns itself out and societies have historically always had angry young 1/

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
          Replying to @ronanfitz22

          How abt, as we raise awareness against specific forms of bullying, we set abt making it socially unacceptable to ridicule ppl for being virgins and/or "losers who can't get any"? How abt we don't accept jokes ridiculing ppl's appearance, generally, not just in some cases?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Ronan‏ @ronanfitz22 May 2
          Replying to @IanRGillespie

          I agree it(or something like it) should, in theory, be a rule. But I dont think it will ever be consistently applied. But Im also not against jokes about societal issues per se, though I agree some of this seems unnecesarily cruel at times.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
          Replying to @ronanfitz22

          Organized opposition to racist jokes isn't a rule, but it's certainly been a big part of reducing the social acceptability of racism. And I'm not talking abt jokes re: societal issues. I'm talking abt our acceptance of jokes abt ppl being *ugly* (physically unattractive).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Ronan‏ @ronanfitz22 May 2
          Replying to @IanRGillespie

          I agree people shouldnt abuse individuals for being 'ugly.' I wouldnt make incel jokes off limits though(any more than I would about any other political/societal group) But it depends on the joke.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Ian Gillespie‏ @IanRGillespie May 2
          Replying to @ronanfitz22

          I never mentioned incel jokes. Don't know where you got that. I said "How abt we don't accept jokes ridiculing ppl's appearance?" We don't accept this with some groups (mocking the appearance of someone who's disabled, for instance), but how abt we stop accepting it generally?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Ronan‏ @ronanfitz22 May 2
          Replying to @IanRGillespie

          you also said "we set abt making it socially unacceptable to ridicule ppl for being virgins and/or "losers who can't get any"? "

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 4 more replies

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